A vegan challenge

[majorbloodnok]

When I registered for this forum, I was asked my lifestyle and I chose omnivore. That, however, is an understatement. I love to cook, have no bias towards or against meat content in my meals and am just after interesting and satisfying food.

The biggest problem I find with a vegan diet is that it relies heavily on fork-only styles; something with rice, something with pasta, soups, salads and so on. That's certainly a generalisation, but there's a very specific satisfaction about a "meat and two veg" type of meal; something that has the firm texture requiring a knife to cut bits off, the texture that requires some kind of proper chewing, the savouriness that gives an umami hit and the satiety factor that a cauliflower steak just completely misses. Certainly something like a veggie wellington can deliver all that and I've used those recipes quite a bit, but a bit more variety is welcome. I've also found that the Beyond Meat range of products are, for me, very good within the sensible limits a good diet dictates. However, I have no idea how I'd even start taking raw ingredients and creating something with that kind of meaty texture.

My challenge to you all, therefore, is to point me in the direction of vegan recipes and/or techniques that fulfil the following criteria:

• Conform to the sausage/steak/rissole style of meal i.e. not accompanied by rice, pasta or smaller grains. Typified by the "meat and two veg" style.
• Is appetising in a savoury kind of way.
• Can be cooked from recognisable raw ingredients rather than ones that have already been preprocessed.
• Can give the feeling of satiety that is typically associated with meats, pulses, potatoes and the like.

Eventually, the more options I can put in front of me and my family that require us to cut and chew and that deliver a satisfying savoury hit, the fewer are the times I'll need to fall back on cooking meat based meals.

All suggestions much appreciated.

 

[Second Summer]

Hi there, that's a great challenge.

I agree that there aren't a lot of vegan dishes like that.

The only ideas I can think of that might fulfil the criteria would be home-made seitan - as long as you're OK with needing special gluten flour to make the seitan. You can then serve that with e.g. boiled or roasted potatoes (and/or other root vegetables) and gravy and whatever else you might fancy with that type of food.

Possibly also nut roast with the same type of sides as above might work.

I'm curious what other ideas people might have for this.

 

[majorbloodnok]

Thanks, @Indian Summer. In fact, I've made seitan before, and whilst I wouldn't really want to use the flour you were talking about I've had success using normal bread flower and washing it. The seitan itself was fine, but the challenge was far more one of flavouring it; no matter how tasty I made the stock I used to cook the seitan, and how long I marinaded it beforehand, the results still came out disappointing.

Now if anyone has any particular techniques for imparting an appetising flavour to seitan - something well rounded and not just two dimensional - that would quite possibly be one challenge winner. Such a thing would easily allow me to, for instance, cover in a Southern-style coating or breadcrumbs, or to cube up and bake in a pie. I should add that I'm not bothered about it necessarily tasting "meaty", but definitely have that savoury flavour rather than just taste salty.

 

[Lou]

First off I do think seitan might be an option. I'm no expert. Being that I don't like it that much I've never really worked on it ( I just realized that maybe if I worked on it some more I would like it. ) But there are some seitan experts here on the VF. they even have several threads about it. You can use the search function to find some. But just sit tight, I imagine that after a while the seitan lovers will be here to give you advice.

The other thing, is that when I first became vegan I was listening to the Food For Thought Podcast and Colleen said something that made a big impression on me. Vegan cooking requires a bit of a paradigm shift. Normally we think of a plate cut into thirds. One-third meat, one-third veggies, one-third starch. But rarely does a vegan meal look like that. Typically a vegan meal is in layers. Like rice on the bottom and stir fry on top. Or pasta on the bottom and sauce on top. or mashed potatoes on the bottom and lentil stew on top.
A lot of vegan meals are served in bowls - not plates. Sometimes it might just be chili in the bowl served with a dinner roll. or a Big Salad.

So yes go ahead and put effort into finding meals/recipes that meet your criteria. but I think you should also work on your mind set. Don't worry about your meals being traditional. Embrace the change.

And it will never get boring. Think of yourself as an explorer with a brave new world in front of you

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Delicious vegan bowls recipes with healthy plant-based ingredients like fresh & roasted veg, grains, protein & creamy dressings. Great for meal prep dinners!

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[majorbloodnok]

Thanks, @Lou

In fact, I'm not trying to ignore the culinary strengths of vegan cooking's homeland. However, it's patently obvious the diet of a typical meat lover needs to change for the environment's sake and the only way to achieve that with most people is to satisfy their preferences rather than try to get them to make a change that feels like they're losing something.

What I've highlighted - the way a meat and two veg type meal feels to eat - is precisely what I find I and others I know miss when we've been without a meat-based meal for some time. If every meal I cook involves scooping up each mouthful with a fork, it ends up feeling like an endless conveyor belt of slop food, no matter how good it tastes, but if I can intersperse it with an occasional cut, stab, chew meal it offers a welcome variety. I know that I can fill that gap with certain meat substitute products like the Beyond Meat sausages, but I realise they are heavily processed. I therefore firmly believe that if we can research and find other plant based ways of scratching that itch then it'll go a long way to reducing a meat-eater's feeling of sacrifice in eating a diet leaning towards more vegan meals.

I hasten to add I have no intention of turning vegan entirely; I have plenty of moral objections to HOW meat is farmed and provided, but I'm comfortable with the basic realities of animals for food. My intention, however, is to continue on my path of substantially reducing the amount of meat in my and my family's diet since I see it as a necessary part in safeguarding the environment.

 

[Lou]

Thanks, @Lou

oh, I forgot.
Welcome to the forum. I like your attitude and thinking and hope you stick around.

In fact, I'm not trying to ignore the culinary strengths of vegan cooking's homeland. However, it's patently obvious the diet of a typical meat lover needs to change for the environment's sake and the only way to achieve that with most people is to satisfy their preferences rather than try to get them to make a change that feels like they're losing something.

Yes that is good but again I think vegan cooking does require a paradigm shift. It may not be easy and it may take time but I think eventually you will realize you lost a little but gained so much more.

I therefore firmly believe that if we can research and find other plant based ways of scratching that itch then it'll go a long way to reducing a meat-eater's feeling of sacrifice in eating a diet leaning towards more vegan meals.

Yes. that's good. but again I think a lot of it is just a frame of mind. Just now I was thinking of the last time I used a steak knife here at home. Can't remember. But I do eat an "occasional" more traditional meal. but to be honest it always require the purchase of something processed and frozen.

I hasten to add I have no intention of turning vegan entirely; ....

lets not shut any doors yet

My intention, however, is to continue on my path of substantially reducing the amount of meat in my and my family's diet since I see it as a necessary part in safeguarding the environment.

That is great. I'm going to consider that a good first step.

 

[majorbloodnok]

He, he. Thanks, @Lou

Don't worry; I'm not shutting any doors at all. If I'd been a little fuller in my explanation, I'd have said that my goal isn't to turn vegan so much as to head towards a more sustainable way of living. If, on the way, I find that I've fallen into a vegan lifestyle then that's fine since I've nothing against it, but similarly I'm not going to consciously give something up that I enjoy if I'm able to find a sustainable way to continue enjoying it.

As for the mindshift, I'm pretty easily able to do that since I love ALL kinds of food (even if not all methods of creating it). However, I realise the sustainable goals will only be realised if a lot more people come along on the ride, and requiring them to give things up won't achieve that. Instead, offering stepping stones and compromises will help encourage. I prefer an approach that involves carrot as well as big stick, and it's that middle ground I'm trying to explore and perhaps widen here.

Thanks for the welcome, btw; much appreciated.

 

[PTree15]

Hi and welcome to the forum, majorbloodnok. With regard to seitan, I find that if you add the dry spices in with the flour (before you add the wet ingredients), the flavor is much better than putting the spices in a marinade.

Also, for less processed sausages, I make this recipe from the Post Punk Kitchen. It does use vital wheat gluten, soy sauce (I use liquid aminos) and canned beans, but it doesn't have all the additives of a store-bought vegan sausage. You can tinker with the spices as well. I make them as directed, but there's also a recipe for a maple/apple flavor that I've been wanting to try.

Have you tried soy curls? They're more like bits of protein rather than a slab, but they really satisfy the texture desire. I'm new to them, but I'm finding all kinds of ways to eat them. They do work nicely in a stir-fry with rice, but you could consider them the "meat" portion of the plate (just already cut up). There is a whole thread on soy curls that you might want to check out.

 

[vegan89]

Literally any kind of food (including vegan food) can have a strong umami taste if you just add some MSG. You don't have to eat meat to get a strong umami flavor in a meal.

As someone from the United States, I've had a lot of those types of "meat and two vegetable" types of dinners a lot and found I have a strong preference for Indian, Thai, or Chinese food over rice... and those cultures have plenty of variety to the foods you can cook while staying vegan, and also typically have the umami kick because you just add MSG

 

[silva]

Hi there, that's a great challenge.

I agree that there aren't a lot of vegan dishes like that.

The only ideas I can think of that might fulfil the criteria would be home-made seitan - as long as you're OK with needing special gluten flour to make the seitan. You can then serve that with e.g. boiled or roasted potatoes (and/or other root vegetables) and gravy and whatever else you might fancy with that type of food.

Possibly also nut roast with the same type of sides as above might work.

I'm curious what other ideas people might have for this.

What do you mean might? Seitan absolutely fulfills this requirement! You can start with nothing but a bag of flour and wash it yourself!
I prefer using the vital wheat gluten myself, but have made some really good roasts by washing flour--maybe even better, but i don't enjoy the process.

After you wash the flour, let the gluten drain in a sieve. When it's stopped draining you can add the flavors. I've used Better than Boullion no chik'n or no beef concentrate. Add whatever herbs and spices you'd use in a meat roast. A bit of marmite, roasted garlic, thyme--you have play around to find your taste. You can whiz it all in a food processor, massage in by hand, or cut in with a knife. Be sure to let it rest well after combining, then you can twist and braid, fry and simmer

Soy curls are also a good option--are they in UK?

 

[silva]

Thanks, @Indian Summer. In fact, I've made seitan before, and whilst I wouldn't really want to use the flour you were talking about I've had success using normal bread flower and washing it. The seitan itself was fine, but the challenge was far more one of flavouring it; no matter how tasty I made the stock I used to cook the seitan, and how long I marinaded it beforehand, the results still came out disappointing.

Now if anyone has any particular techniques for imparting an appetising flavour to seitan - something well rounded and not just two dimensional - that would quite possibly be one challenge winner. Such a thing would easily allow me to, for instance, cover in a Southern-style coating or breadcrumbs, or to cube up and bake in a pie. I should add that I'm not bothered about it necessarily tasting "meaty", but definitely have that savoury flavour rather than just taste salty.

Have you tried vital wheat gluten? My preference. I've made seitan a bit of a hobby.
I honestly really love faux meats--I have all my life. Love tofu too.
I like meals that are separate things. Bowl food is lunch

 

[majorbloodnok]

I haven’t tried vital wheat gluten, @silva, but I’m not that bothered. The important thing is the imparting of an appetising flavour, and you’ve given me some things to try so thank you.

I also like your comment about separate things and bowl food; it’s another facet of exactly what I was trying to explain.

 

[majorbloodnok]

Hi and welcome to the forum, majorbloodnok. With regard to seitan, I find that if you add the dry spices in with the flour (before you add the wet ingredients), the flavor is much better than putting the spices in a marinade.

Also, for less processed sausages, I make this recipe from the Post Punk Kitchen. It does use vital wheat gluten, soy sauce (I use liquid aminos) and canned beans, but it doesn't have all the additives of a store-bought vegan sausage. You can tinker with the spices as well. I make them as directed, but there's also a recipe for a maple/apple flavor that I've been wanting to try.

Have you tried soy curls? They're more like bits of protein rather than a slab, but they really satisfy the texture desire. I'm new to them, but I'm finding all kinds of ways to eat them. They do work nicely in a stir-fry with rice, but you could consider them the "meat" portion of the plate (just already cut up). There is a whole thread on soy curls that you might want to check out.

Lots of pointers, @PTree15. Thanks.

I haven’t tried soy curls, but will keep an eye out for them. The sausage recipe, though, is a definite find, so that might be my first thing to try.

 

[majorbloodnok]

Literally any kind of food (including vegan food) can have a strong umami taste if you just add some MSG. You don't have to eat meat to get a strong umami flavor in a meal.

As someone from the United States, I've had a lot of those types of "meat and two vegetable" types of dinners a lot and found I have a strong preference for Indian, Thai, or Chinese food over rice... and those cultures have plenty of variety to the foods you can cook while staying vegan, and also typically have the umami kick because you just add MSG

I agree, but I don’t use MSG. After growing up with the artificial quality of Chinese takeaways laden with it, and the later realisation of how that country’s food can taste without it, I prefer to add flavour with raw ingredients even if it takes more effort. That’s not a criticism of using MSG, by the way; just a statement that it’s not my style.

Thanks anyway, @vegan89.

 

[silva]

If I liked washing flour I would try this!

 

[silva]

Braised Chestnut & Grain Wellington, with a Charred Red Pepper Dressing - Avant-Garde Vegan

www.avantgardevegan.com

 

[silva]

Ribz are easy with vwg

BBQ Jackfruit ribs

www.copymethat.com

 

[majorbloodnok]

OK, an update.

Firstly, the vegan ham video. It certainly gave me some useful pointers regarding technique, but the only "flavour" being added was smoke and salt (and an amazing amount of salt at that!). I really do need a more robust combination of constituent flavours than that so I'll chalk that up as "needs work".

Next, the braised chestnut and grain Wellie. I made a similar recipe for my eldest (he's vegan) for Christmas dinner last year and it ended up being eaten by pretty much everyone round the table. It's a definite keeper, with the added benefit that it doesn't even need to taste or feel "meaty". It's savoury, it's plant-based and it's knife and fork food. All big ticks.

Next, the home-made sausages. I took a good look at the recipe and I'm really quite excited to give this a go although I haven't yet had time. There are plenty of flavours going on there without looking as if they'll taste artificial, and they also look as if they'll cook up well on a barbecue as well.

Finally the soy curls. I live in the UK and I've only found one place where I can get them - Amazon, an 8oz pack for £97.32. Not quite a bargain, methinks, so I'm going to have to give the soy curl suggestions a miss. A pity, 'cos I was looking forward to them.

As a result, if anyone is willing to focus a little further on seitan flavouring and give suggestions as to ingredients to combine with the flour, ingredients to use in any stock used to simmer the seitan and/or any techniques with ingredients for alternative seitan cooking methods (such as steaming), it'd be much appreciated.

I also heard second-hand of a suggestion that it may be possible to cook lots of oyster mushrooms whilst weighted down to produce a kind of mushroom cake that has a fairly meaty texture. Has anyone heard anything more about this or tried a similar technique?

 

[shyvas]

OK, an update.



As a result, if anyone is willing to focus a little further on seitan flavouring and give suggestions as to ingredients to combine with the flour, ingredients to use in any stock used to simmer the seitan and/or any techniques with ingredients for alternative seitan cooking methods (such as steaming), it'd be much appreciated.

I also heard second-hand of a suggestion that it may be possible to cook lots of oyster mushrooms whilst weighted down to produce a kind of mushroom cake that has a fairly meaty texture. Has anyone heard anything more about this or tried a similar technique?

Foolproof Seitan recipes/Tips/Techniques

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Bosh TV have tons of easy vegan recipes including one for pan fried oyster mushrooms:

Bosh TV

This is a fabulous vegan cooking channel : Home - BOSH!

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King Oyster Ribs Cage - BOSH!

These king oyster mushroom ribs are spookily meaty. In fact they may well be the 'meatiest' vegan dish we've ever created! We arranged ours on some gorgeous BBQ mash to create a super scary ribs cage! Perfect for a halloween spread. Weather your celebrating the ghoulish season or not, we...

www.bosh.tv

 

[majorbloodnok]

Thanks, @shyvas. I did see that foolproof seitan thread and have found a couple of seasoning combinations to try, but it did seem rather biased towards adding herbs, spices and soy/tamari/salt without so many ideas in the way of umami-style depth of flavour. To be frank, I only need one that really hits the spot so it may be that one of those combinations will be "the one"; who knows?

As for the Bosh oyster mushrooms rib recipe, that's definitely one I hadn't seen before and well worth a try. In fact, since it's pure mushroom rather than faux meat it'll be an easier sell for everyone in the family for all sorts of reasons. I already know I won't be doing the mash to accompany it - at least first time round - but that's only because I'm intending to do it with chips and maque choux instead. Oh, I can feel a barbecue coming on.....