An increased appetite Further to Higher Calorie Meals

[Jools Holland]

My appetite randomly increased out of nowhere from temporarily increasing the calorie content of my meals

I did something recently where I tried increasing the calorie intake of my meals to see if it would make me fuller for longer. Basically, for quite a long time I have been getting this horrible hunger that comes on in between meals. Up until a few weeks ago it usually happened twice in between meals. So, I eat four meals a day, and I would feel hungry again twice in between each pair of meals (twice in between the first and second, twice in between the second and third, and twice in between the third and fourth). The hunger would usually always come on at around 1 and a half hours after the last meal, and then at around 2 and a half hours after the last meal. I then wouldn't feel like I need to eat again until my next meal, usually around 4 hours after the previous one. The only thing that I have found that suppresses the hunger when it comes on between meals is if I have 100 calories worth of dates (around 34 grams worth of dates) or some miso soup. However, I stopped having miso soup a while ago because I think it may have been increasing my blood pressure.

However, a few weeks back, I tried increasing the calorie intake in three out of my four meals per day to see if that would reduce the amount of hunger I had in between meals. (I want to stop having to eat dates in between meals because I presume the massive amount of sugar from the dates can't be good for me, even if the dates also have antioxidants, and I think the dates may be making my acne worse.) It didn't seem to suppress my appetite in between meals at all. Even worse, when I went back to eating the amount of calories I was consuming before, now out of nowhere my appetite has massively increased between meals. Now instead of feeling hunger only two times in between meals, I feel hunger about four times in between meals. The hunger usually comes on at around 30 to 45 minutes after my last meal, at around 1 and a half hours after my last meal, at around 2 hours after my last meal, and at around 3 hours after my last meal.

I have no idea what is going on. If I knew this was going to happen I wouldn't have tried increasing my calorie intake. I don't want to have to eat so much dates in between meals because I don't want to gain weight (I was maintaining at my weight with the amount of calories I was eating before). Also, I can't not eat when I am hungry in between meals, because I noticed a while back that if I starve myself and don't eat when I am hungry my gynecomastia seems to immediately start progressing. (It starts feeling tender and uncomfortable and I notice that it visually looks worse after a few days. When I go back to consistently eating when I'm hungry, it stops getting tender and uncomfortable pretty soon after.) I can't believe how much worse the gynecomastia has gotten in the last year and it is really depressing. I don't want it to get worse. However, I don't want to put on weight either. it seems like my only choices are either putting on weight or having my gynecomastia getting worse, or just eating substantially few calories for my meals and increasing the amount of dates in between meals (so that I eat around 800 calories worth of dates in between meals rather than around 400 calories worth of dates in between meals).

People keep telling me the problem is that I need to change what I'm eating but nothing that I try makes any difference. Regardless of what I eat (more protein, more fat, more carbohydrates, more vegetables), nothing stops me from getting hungry again at the same times after meals. And it's not an issue with not feeling full after meals. I usually feel really full after meals but the hunger soon comes on soon afterwards.

I want to see if drastically dropping my calorie intake suddenly and increasing it again may work to get my appetite to where it was before. However, I'm worried that if I try this this will just make my current problem even worse than it currently is. Also, I know that if I drastically drop my calorie intake, that will make my gynecomastia worse.

Edit: when I looked up the research, I just found a meta-analysis that says that there is no evidence that fasting reduces appetite. So I presume the thing I want to try wouldn't work and if anything will just make my gynocomastia worse.

 

[Lou]

We have "talked" before so I just quickly reviewed some of our previous posts.
One thing I would like to bring up is that there wasn't as much closure of follow up on your part as I would like so I'm going to take this opportunity to ask, how are you doing?

Also by now you probably know my stance on hunger and metabolism but for clarity sake and maybe for anyone else just dropping in let me briefly restate both.

Except for thirst, all cravings, including hunger can safely be ignored.

We like to think that our body is smart and tells us what to do. In fact there more neurons in the enteric system than in your brain. however the brain is where those neural transmissions are interpreted.

There are plenty of examples of cravings actually be correct and useful. But in the first world these examples are vastly outweighed by the cravings of processed food. Which is entirely psychological. Or even worse the result of food addictions.

And don't even get me started on the false signals that our gut bacteria have learned how to transmit. Oh! come to think of it, some bacteria have the ability to pump out hormones that make you feel hungry or even to lower blood sugar levels.

Getting back to metabolism. I still think there is less fact than fiction in the content.

Since I last spoke to you I have become aware of thyroid disorders. It turns out that about 10% have an undiagnosed thyroid disorder. And the thyroid does control things like sleep, appetite and energy levels.

There is a simple blood test called TSH which can tell you and your doctor about the health of your thyroid. Then maybe get T1 thru 4 checked too.

If you do need medication they will need to "dial it in". so keep tracking all the things you do now - that will be a good baseline.

Ok, sorry, I sort of got diverted after saying, "let me briefly restate both".

Assuming for now a healthy thyroid, I think the main thing you need to do is to stop worrying about this. Go back to your regular diet and skip all the stuff you were doing to control your hunger. Every time you feel hungry just have a glass of water. If you don't start loosing weight - then those hunger pains are false. And can and should be ignored.

(I don't understand on a biological level some of the following process enough to actually explain them. and besides the Biochemistry is pretty dense and who wants to read that. so please excuse the heavy anthropomorphizing.) Our bodies actually learn and adapt to our needs. For instance if we never need to break down fat into glycogen before 8am our bodies will not do that. but if you suddenly start going to the gym at 7, when your blood sugar levels drop during your workout, you body will at first ignore it and you might get light headed. But after a week or two you body figures out that you are doing things differently and will release sugar into you blood before 8 am.

Bottom line
Keep tracking but also skip all the hunger diverting strategies and just see how things go for a week or two.

References and further reading

5 Ways Your Gut Health May Be Affecting Your Hormones

Your hardworking gut microbes do so much more than digest the food you eat. While it’s true that they help you to process, synthesise and absorb nutrients – as well as manufacturing some important vitamins, essential amino acids and bioactive molecules – your gut microbial community has a...

us.thebeautychef.com

What Do Food Cravings Mean? Facts and Myths, Explained

Food cravings can be brought on by a variety of factors — be it physical or mental. This article dives into what your food cravings may mean, as well as the possible reasons behind them.

www.healthline.com

Can You Change Your Metabolism?

Though you might not be able to significantly rev up your metabolism, there are ways to boost the energy your body burns while doing nothing

www.scientificamerican.com

https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/health-and-wellness/2017/august/thyroid#:~:text=6%20Signs%20That%20You%20Need%20to%20Have%20Your%20Thyroid%20Checked&text=Over%2012%20percent%20of%20Americans,called%20thyroid%20hormone%20(TH).

 

[Emma JC]

@Lou I am so surprised you didn't ask about Cronometer... - maybe that was addressed in a different thread

@Jools Holland without knowing the amount of calories that you are eating at each meal it is difficult to understand "increased caloric intake" or "decreased caloric intake" and relating that to the amount of motion/exercise you are doing between meals is also important - we only eat two good sized meals per day and we are relatively sedentary as we work from home and only exercise briefly if at all

such a great deal of helpful information you did supply @Lou which I am sure will be helpful to many

@Jools Holland - if you don't already consider track your intake / exercise for a few days on Cronometer and see if you are in the right ballpark

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Lou]

@Lou I am so surprised you didn't ask about Cronometer... - maybe that was addressed in a different thread

I'm pretty sure I have. but you're right , I should have brought it up.

@Jools Holland without knowing the amount of calories that you are eating at each meal it is difficult to understand "increased caloric intake" or "decreased caloric intake" and relating that to the amount of motion/exercise you are doing between meals is also important - we only eat two good sized meals per day and we are relatively sedentary as we work from home and only exercise briefly if at all

In another conversation it was revealed he is eating 3000 calories a day. Not sure if he is still doing that but if so, no good reason for him to be so hungry.

 

[shyvas]

Mod Post

We do not provide medical advice. Information which includes sharing personal experiences or advise on this web site should never replace a doctor’s or other qualified clinician’s advice and recommendations. Patients should not use the information contained herein for diagnosing a health or fitness problem or disease. A doctor or other qualified clinician is the best resource to consult regarding what is best for medical conditions, for diagnosis, medical advice and treatment.

 

[Lou]

Mod Post

We do not provide medical advice. Information which includes sharing personal experiences or advise on this web site should never replace a doctor’s or other qualified clinician’s advice and recommendations. Patients should not use the information contained herein for diagnosing a health or fitness problem or disease. A doctor or other qualified clinician is the best resource to consult regarding what is best for medical conditions, for diagnosis, medical advice and treatment.

I'm sorry if I went too far.

 

[shyvas]

I'm sorry if I went too far.

No worries.
It`s just a gentle reminder so that any members who either give out advice or follow it, are made fully aware of the medical disclaimer which is provided in the forum`s terms & rules.

 

[silva]

Sounds like you first should have a check up, then consult with a Registered Dietician.
What is your exercise routine like?
How long has this been going on? Health issues?
Not only is macros of protein and carbs but what you're eating.
Have you followed a whole food plant based diet? Of whole grains rather than processed?
Beans & lentils a daily part of diet?

 

[AllGoodNamesRGone]

My appetite randomly increased out of nowhere from temporarily increasing the calorie content of my meals

I did something recently where I tried increasing the calorie intake of my meals to see if it would make me fuller for longer. Basically, for quite a long time I have been getting this horrible hunger that comes on in between meals. Up until a few weeks ago it usually happened twice in between meals. So, I eat four meals a day, and I would feel hungry again twice in between each pair of meals (twice in between the first and second, twice in between the second and third, and twice in between the third and fourth). The hunger would usually always come on at around 1 and a half hours after the last meal, and then at around 2 and a half hours after the last meal. I then wouldn't feel like I need to eat again until my next meal, usually around 4 hours after the previous one. The only thing that I have found that suppresses the hunger when it comes on between meals is if I have 100 calories worth of dates (around 34 grams worth of dates) or some miso soup. However, I stopped having miso soup a while ago because I think it may have been increasing my blood pressure.

However, a few weeks back, I tried increasing the calorie intake in three out of my four meals per day to see if that would reduce the amount of hunger I had in between meals. (I want to stop having to eat dates in between meals because I presume the massive amount of sugar from the dates can't be good for me, even if the dates also have antioxidants, and I think the dates may be making my acne worse.) It didn't seem to suppress my appetite in between meals at all. Even worse, when I went back to eating the amount of calories I was consuming before, now out of nowhere my appetite has massively increased between meals. Now instead of feeling hunger only two times in between meals, I feel hunger about four times in between meals. The hunger usually comes on at around 30 to 45 minutes after my last meal, at around 1 and a half hours after my last meal, at around 2 hours after my last meal, and at around 3 hours after my last meal.

I have no idea what is going on. If I knew this was going to happen I wouldn't have tried increasing my calorie intake. I don't want to have to eat so much dates in between meals because I don't want to gain weight (I was maintaining at my weight with the amount of calories I was eating before). Also, I can't not eat when I am hungry in between meals, because I noticed a while back that if I starve myself and don't eat when I am hungry my gynecomastia seems to immediately start progressing. (It starts feeling tender and uncomfortable and I notice that it visually looks worse after a few days. When I go back to consistently eating when I'm hungry, it stops getting tender and uncomfortable pretty soon after.) I can't believe how much worse the gynecomastia has gotten in the last year and it is really depressing. I don't want it to get worse. However, I don't want to put on weight either. it seems like my only choices are either putting on weight or having my gynecomastia getting worse, or just eating substantially few calories for my meals and increasing the amount of dates in between meals (so that I eat around 800 calories worth of dates in between meals rather than around 400 calories worth of dates in between meals).

People keep telling me the problem is that I need to change what I'm eating but nothing that I try makes any difference. Regardless of what I eat (more protein, more fat, more carbohydrates, more vegetables), nothing stops me from getting hungry again at the same times after meals. And it's not an issue with not feeling full after meals. I usually feel really full after meals but the hunger soon comes on soon afterwards.

I want to see if drastically dropping my calorie intake suddenly and increasing it again may work to get my appetite to where it was before. However, I'm worried that if I try this this will just make my current problem even worse than it currently is. Also, I know that if I drastically drop my calorie intake, that will make my gynecomastia worse.

Edit: when I looked up the research, I just found a meta-analysis that says that there is no evidence that fasting reduces appetite. So I presume the thing I want to try wouldn't work and if anything will just make my gynocomastia worse.

I hear you, and it sounds like a real struggle. Nutrition and appetite can be tricky to navigate. Have you considered talking to a nutritionist or a healthcare professional? They might be able to provide more personalized advice based on your specific situation. It could be a good idea to rule out any underlying issues and get guidance on managing your appetite while considering your concerns about gynecomastia.

Hang in there, and take care!

 

[Jools Holland]

@Lou I am so surprised you didn't ask about Cronometer... - maybe that was addressed in a different thread

@Jools Holland without knowing the amount of calories that you are eating at each meal it is difficult to understand "increased caloric intake" or "decreased caloric intake" and relating that to the amount of motion/exercise you are doing between meals is also important - we only eat two good sized meals per day and we are relatively sedentary as we work from home and only exercise briefly if at all

such a great deal of helpful information you did supply @Lou which I am sure will be helpful to many

@Jools Holland - if you don't already consider track your intake / exercise for a few days on Cronometer and see if you are in the right ballpark

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

What I mean is that I usually measure exactly the amount of food I am eating with a kitchen scale so that I am exactly consistent with how much I eat every day and for each meal. I tried increasing my calorie intake of three of my meals per day to see if that would prevent me from getting hungry in between meals but it just seemed to make my problem even worse. Now I feel hungry more frequently in between meals.

To give more information, my previous calorie intake from my meals came out to about 3000 calories. I was eating around 750 calories per meal. Then, I tried increasing the calorie content of three of my meals per day, such that my total calorie intake across my four meals was around 3300 a day. Now, my current calorie intake from my meals comes out to around 2900 calories. So pretty much the same now as it was before I tried increasing my calories. (First meal a day is 750 calories. The other three meals come out to about 2150 in total - so about 717 calories for each of the remaining three meals of the day.)

However, none of this counts the calories I eat from dates. Before, I was eating 100 calories of dates twice in between each set of meals, which comes out to an additional 600 calories. So before, I was eating around 3000 calories a day, plus the 600 calories a day worth of dates, which comes out to 3600 calories a day in total. I was maintaining at this weight. However, now that I am eating more dates, my calorie intake from dates is increased.

I tend to be pretty consistent with exercise as well and typically do the exact same amount every day, roughly, so I don't think the change in appetite is because of increased exercise or anything. However, I do notice that when I increase the extent to which I am walking around that that increases my appetite (it makes me hungry more frequently in between meals). This was the case both before I tried increasing my calorie intake and after. When I feel hungry more frequently between meals, I also eat dates for the increased instances in which I feel hunger.

 

[Jools Holland]

Sounds like you first should have a check up, then consult with a Registered Dietician.
What is your exercise routine like?
How long has this been going on? Health issues?
Not only is macros of protein and carbs but what you're eating.
Have you followed a whole food plant based diet? Of whole grains rather than processed?
Beans & lentils a daily part of diet?

Yes, I was thinking of checking with a registered dietician.

I try not to do much exercise because I notice it makes me sleep much worse and I really don't like sleeping badly. If I don't need to go into my walk, I will typically walk to the shops and back every day though. This usually works out to around 30 minutes worth of walking a day. Sometimes I will walk a bit round my house, or I will need to walk outside for longer because I need to get something. But usually it works out to around 30 minutes a day (not counting when I am cooking, getting up to get dates, use the bathroom, etc.). If I need to go into my work, I will walk to get public transport and back. I usually end up walking quite a bit more if I have to go into work.

In terms of how long it's been going on, I'd say it was since I started cutting calories back in 2021. (I was 10 kgs overweight and wanted to lose weight.) There was a period of a few months before that (when I was overweight) where I would never feel hungry in between meals. I could literally go around three to four hours without feeling hungry. It was very nice. Since that point where I started trying to lose weight, I typically felt hungry twice in between meals. The last few weeks I have felt hungry more frequently in between meals.

Yes, I follow a whole foods plant based diet. I only eat whole grains. The only refined grain product I have is wholemeal pasta, but my understanding is that wholemeal pasta is fine because it has a lower glycemic index then most other whole grains even.

I don't eat beans and lentils anymore because I noticed a few years back that they give me absolutely horrible heartburn and constipation. (And possibly painful ulcers in my mouth, but I am not sure about that.) However, I tolerate tofu very well so I eat around 450 calories worth of that every day (around 100 grams of tofu per meal).

 

[Jools Holland]

I hear you, and it sounds like a real struggle. Nutrition and appetite can be tricky to navigate. Have you considered talking to a nutritionist or a healthcare professional? They might be able to provide more personalized advice based on your specific situation. It could be a good idea to rule out any underlying issues and get guidance on managing your appetite while considering your concerns about gynecomastia.

Hang in there, and take care!

I think I may talk to a nutritionist and will raise the issue with my doctor. My experience though is that doctors don't usually have much to suggest with this type of issue. (One doctor said to try increasing my protein intake, but when I try changing up the macronutrient makeup of my meals it doesn't seems to have any effect.)

 

[AllGoodNamesRGone]

I think I may talk to a nutritionist and will raise the issue with my doctor. My experience though is that doctors don't usually have much to suggest with this type of issue. (One doctor said to try increasing my protein intake, but when I try changing up the macronutrient makeup of my meals it doesn't seems to have any effect.)

Totally get that. It's frustrating when changing things up doesn't seem to make a difference. A nutritionist sounds like a good call though. Hope you find some helpful advice there!