Attitudes towards the elderly within the NHS

[Ann Chovie]

Dont want to knock the good old NHS as I work directly within it myself but..

I had a patient today who is presently being treated with a particular rare form of oral Chemotherapy appropriate to his rare cancer. He told me that at each appointment his consultant reminds him of how much his medication is actually costing and how he is not sure that it is effective anyway.

He was very upset and said that he is left feeling embarrassed and apolgising for the cost. He said he feels like a drain on resources and wonders if they are expecting him to pay towards the cost . As he points out he is a pensioner living on benefits and he barely survives as it is. He was left feeling that they had written him off due to his age.

I felt angry that he had made to feel this way and that the discussion of price over effectiveness was one that should definitely have been had at his case meeting not with him.

This gentleman had worked from the age of 15-67. He had always paid taxes and National Insurance contributions to such an extent that he probably had paid more in than most of us will in a lifetime.

It seems a cruel twist that the exact people who have historically 'filled up' the National Insurance pot are fast becoming the group that society resents taking from it. This can only get worse as the impact of demographic changes sees our elderly population grow and grow.

 

[SummerRain]

That's a sad story and clearly that man was treated badly. I think it's particularly sad that elderly people often feel as if they are a burden (and are made to feel that way too, but the rest of society), when they have contributed greatly to society - in my experience elderly people often don't want to "cause a fuss" and so don't always even ask for the health treatment/care they need.

However, I think it would be just as sad if the man hadn't paid as much into national insurance: if he'd been a child, or disabled and unable to work, or stayed at home to look after children or ill relatives, or simply earned a lower wage or worked part time, or been unable to find work, etc.

I don't think people ought to get more if they pay more in, because I think health treatment is a right that is equally deserved by everyone. Also, considering you don't necessarily get paid more (and therefore pay in more to national insurance) for working harder, or for doing a job that benefits society more (nurses or teachers or rubbish collectors don't get paid as much as marketing experts, but I'm sure they work just as hard and help society a lot more), I don't think people who put more in are necessarily more "deserving" if I thought such a thing existed.

 

[Ann Chovie]

That's a sad story and clearly that man was treated badly. I think it's particularly sad that elderly people often feel as if they are a burden (and are made to feel that way too, but the rest of society), when they have contributed greatly to society - in my experience elderly people often don't want to "cause a fuss" and so don't always even ask for the health treatment/care they need.

However, I think it would be just as sad if the man hadn't paid as much into national insurance: if he'd been a child, or disabled and unable to work, or stayed at home to look after children or ill relatives, or simply earned a lower wage or worked part time, or been unable to find work, etc.

I don't think people ought to get more if they pay more in, because I think health treatment is a right that is equally deserved by everyone. Also, considering you don't necessarily get paid more (and therefore pay in more to national insurance) for working harder, or for doing a job that benefits society more (nurses or teachers or rubbish collectors don't get paid as much as marketing experts, but I'm sure they work just as hard and help society a lot more), I don't think people who put more in are necessarily more "deserving" if I thought such a thing existed.

Brilliant post Summer

You are completely right . The title was misleading, sorry! What I wanted to ask was..


Is it fair that when you have paid NI contributions in all your working life you are made to feel this way when you need to claw some of it back ?

I think that what was in my mind was that as you rightly say the elderly are from a generation where you did not make a fuss about and didnt complain ,but stoically carried on working through. Many of the elderly have not had more than a week or so of sick leave in their whole employment history. But now when quite obviously they will start to need medical treatment and have to 'make a fuss' they are treated like a drain on resources.

This attitude of resentment toward the elderly is very rarely as overt as that exhibited by the consultant but it definitely is creeping in as budget belts within the NHS are tightened even further.

I agree that it is not confined to the NHS but creeping through into society generally , as always driven by media flags up about how many of 'them' there will as demographic shifts occur over the next decade. Moving us further away from a desirable position where the elderly are at the best respected and valued and at the very least tolerated and acknowledged to a position where they are resented, abused , and treated with derision.

 

[Second Summer]

A "what you put in is what you get out" system is not what the NHS was ever meant to be, I would think. That sounds more like private health care.

Also, if we had that kind of health service, I would think only the wealthy could ever afford to get particularly ill.

 

[Ann Chovie]

A "what you put in is what you get out" system is not what the NHS was ever meant to be, I would think. That sounds more like private health care.

Also, if we had that kind of health service, I would think only the wealthy could ever afford to get particularly ill.

As I have just explained in my post the title was completely misleading . That kind of system would be completely against the ethos of the NHS .

 

[beancounter]

IMO if you pay your taxes and the social contract is free healthcare for everyone, then you have the right to receive any doctor prescribed treatment, period. And when the complainers get old, they will have the same right.

 

[shyvas]

Dont want to knock the good old NHS as I work directly within it myself but..

I had a patient today who is presently being treated with a particular rare form of oral Chemotherapy appropriate to his rare cancer. He told me that at each appointment his consultant reminds him of how much his medication is actually costing and how he is not sure that it is effective anyway.

He was very upset and said that he is left feeling embarrassed and apolgising for the cost. He said he feels like a drain on resources and wonders if they are expecting him to pay towards the cost . As he points out he is a pensioner living on benefits and he barely survives as it is. He was left feeling that they had written him off due to his age.

I felt angry that he had made to feel this way and that the discussion of price over effectiveness was one that should definitely have been had at his case meeting not with him.

This gentleman had worked from the age of 15-67. He had always paid taxes and National Insurance contributions to such an extent that he probably had paid more in than most of us will in a lifetime.

It seems a cruel twist that the exact people who have historically 'filled up' the National Insurance pot are fast becoming the group that society resents taking from it. This can only get worse as the impact of demographic changes sees our elderly population grow and grow.

This elderly patient who is ill is being treated by the consultant. The doctor has an obligation to give him appropriate treatment that is available, as well as the best possible care.

If the given drug is available at the hospital for cancer patients, some higher authority has given their approval. The doctor has no right to even mention this kind of information to a patient. Furthermore he knows that he is making the gentlemen feel guilty and uncomfortable each time, which in turn is not going to improve his health. He is the one that is ill and in need of the best possible treatement and care. The doctor's role is to improve it in every possible way. He has no right to make cruel remarks.

I'm gathering tht the man has no family member when he comes into hospital. It would be a good idea if he could see as social worker who could speak to a senior consultant about how he is being ill treated.

I feel that we should stick up for the elderly and not let them be abused or ill treated as many of them are fragile and vulnerable.

 

[Ann Chovie]

This elderly patient who is ill and is being treated by the consultant. The doctor has an obligation to give him appropriate treatment that is available as well as the best possible care.

If the given drug is available at the hospital for cancer patients, some higher authority has given their approval. The doctor has no right to even mention this kind of information to a patient. Furthermore he knows that he is making the gentlemen feel guilty and uncomfortable each time, which in turn is not going to improve his health. He is the one that is ill and in need of the best possible treatement and care. The doctor's role is to improve it in every possible way. He has no right to make cruel remarks.

I'm gathering tht the man has no family member when he comes into hospital. It would be a good idea if he could see as social worker who could speak to a senior consultant about how he is being ill treated.

I feel that we should stick up for the elderly and not let them be abused or ill treated as many of them are fragile and vulnerable.

Hi shyvas
Yes he did have his wife with him but she was very reluctant to join the conservation and stuck to the " doctor knows best" approach so common in elderly patients.

I did advise him that his son should accompany him next time and make it clear that this was it unacceptable and he would put in a complaint if it continued. My feeling is that he has not even mentioned this to his son and has no intention of doing so. I don't think he will want " to make a fuss".

Consultants are held in such awe elderly patients will often accept medication or treatment without question or explaination of why it is bein proposed simply because " doctor knows best"

 

[nigel1]

My wife's grandfather was a similar case in England, an OAP relying on NHS for his care. When he showed symptoms like high blood pressure, dizziness and extreme edema, they told him to take aspirin and "wear looser socks". Fortunate for him he was out of the country and on traveler's health insurance when he had his heart attack and he got immediate care and a prescribed regimen that his clinic at home felt obliged to continue. He felt guilty about it, all the while, just like your case.