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B12?

Discussion in 'General' started by alfred wenzl, Sep 30, 2018.

  1. alfred wenzl

    alfred wenzl New Member

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    I started on a plant-based diet a short while ago, But after listening to Dr. Neil Barnard's lecture I made this comment to his video:
    Dear Neil, many years ago when I still went fishing I caught what's called a "talking catfish" and when I heard it making those sounds hanging on my line I decided that I simply had to release it and return it to freedom. That was the last time I went fishing. I have recently started to eat plant-based food, without intending to go strictly "vegan". However, after seeing your report on how innocent young cows are treated by humans I made an overall decision, based on ethics. Short of depending on it for survival, no bird, fish or mammal shall ever have to die to provide another meal for me. Therefore, based on my ethical decision, it looks like I became a full-fledged vegan by accident. I am not a religious person, but this almost feels like a religion. Thank you for showing me the way :)

    My question of this post is this:
    I read somewhere that one risk of veganism used to be the lack of B12 in plant-based food, but that was no longer the case. Anyway, B12 has been available for a long time, and I just bought some online.
    But how can we be sure of getting the type that eliminates the shortage it used to be for vegans?
    Thank you for clarification!
     
  2. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not an expert, and look to the Internet for answers. I do find this channel and doctor Greger to be reputable. Hope it helps:
     
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  3. Lou
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    Lou Active Member

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    That's a good video above. But I think it gives way too much info. It's not all that complicated.

    this is my take on the whole thing. B12 gets way more column inches than it deserves. It definitely is required. I'm not saying it isn't. And many people (even nonvegans) are sometimes deficient. the 40% stat in the video is crazy. Yes, A study did come up with that number but some other studies state less than 5%). still, I think it gets too much attention.

    the amount of B12 required is literally microscopic. And our liver can store a lot. At least 3 months - maybe more. And almost all the plant milks, plus some cereals, breads, and store-bought protein shakes are fortified with B12. And almost all multivitamins contain B12.

    Simple solution: take a decent multi. Its good insurance anyway. And cheap too. I take DEVA tiny tablets. They cost about $2 a month.

    Oh and get a physical with a blood test once a year. You should anyway. and you will get an early warning of any issues regarding deficiencies.
     
  4. Jamie in Chile
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    Jamie in Chile Active Member

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    Yes, B12 is lacking in plant foods. Nothing has changed. Vegans should take a B12 supplement.

    "Vitamin B12
    There are three options for people age 14–65 who aren’t pregnant or breastfeeding—see chart below for others:

     
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  5. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    A whopping 4 minutes and 20 second long video is too much info? Good grief!


    *
     
  6. Lou
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    Lou Active Member

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    I watched it. (again). but I am maybe getting oversensitive to B12. Again not that it's not important. but sheesh it gets too much attention.

    Jaime's post can be read in 20 seconds.

    You can spend the other 4 minutes on Amazon ordering your B12 supplement.
     
  7. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The video does cover the bio-availability of the different "types" of B12 supplements available, which I think is what the OP was asking.


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  8. veganDreama

    veganDreama Active Member

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    I just take a B12 spray. It's no big deal for me as I've always had to take medicine so one more is no big deal.
     
  9. Vegan Dogs
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    Vegan Dogs Active Member

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    70 percent of all humans are vitb12 lacking it turns out. it is not a "vegan" probem so taking supplements is sensible. it was historically in dirt attached to our food...now food is super cleaned (except for the pesticides etc lol) we miss out on it but supps are easy.
     
  10. Lou
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    Lou Active Member

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    @ vegan dogs

    I never heard the 70% numbers. There was a study in 2008 that is often cited (by makers of vitamins) that uses 40% as sort of an alarmist number. the 40% was just "low-normal". The actual deficit number was less than 15%. But that was just one study and did not include that many people.

    I think that as a general conclusion it's fair to say that there are more B12 deficient people than we thought there were. And it affects a lot more people than vegans. Oh, and it probably has more to do with a person's ability to absorb B12 than their diet. Most of the people recognized as B12 deficient were either elderly or ill. (This is why many of the over the counter B12 supplements have such large amounts - for the people who have trouble absorbing it. Plus since the amounts are so tiny and there is no issue with toxicity - why not make a supplement that has thousands of percent of the mRDA. )

    Of course, us vegans do need to be concerned with B12. A deficiency is a serious problem. But it is so easily prevented, i just don't think it should be one of our top concerns.

    The "dirt" theory is also not well regarded in the medical community. First of all, there would be no B12 in dirt. However its very likely that there is B12 producing bacteria living in the soil. But could eating that bacteria do us any good? In modern humans, the cite in our large intestines for B12 production is after the site for B12 absorption. So it doesn't matter if we have those B12 producing bacteria in our bodies - we probably do right now. However, that may not have always been true. There is a theory that in early humans or proto-humans, those sites may have migrated.
     
  11. veganDreama

    veganDreama Active Member

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    I thought it was eating insects with the 'herbivore' diet we used to eat in primitive times and the diet primate's eat. Whatever the theory vit B12 is necessary and some people can absorb it better then others. I'm not sure I was all that good at absorbing it but I'm ok now I take a supplement.
     
  12. Vegan Dogs
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    Vegan Dogs Active Member

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    ye u r right...mistyped wrong number..it is 40 percent of the general population that were found to be b12 lacking based on usa population studied
     
  13. Lou
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    Lou Active Member

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    @ veganDreama

    Early humans and our earlier ancestors probably ate bugs. and also bone marrow and shellfish. in fact, shellfish have a ton of B12. The earliest tool users who just used rocks to break open shells and the big bones left over from big cat kills were able to easily get enough B12 from one of those sources. Maybe it was during one of those time periods we lost the ability to absorb it in our large intestine.

    One of the theories of humans population migration is that we didn't spread across continents but followed rivers and coastlines. Besides the need for freshwater maybe there was a need for shellfish too. In fact, it might be that early human as their populations grew decimated the shellfish population requiring another move every few years.
     
  14. Lou
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    Lou Active Member

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    Today I was at the Dollar Store. Four B12 capsules for a dollar. Each one has 10,000 RDA. So you could probably just take one every 3 months. Let's call it one month to be on the very very safe side. so you would need three packages a year. That is $3 bucks a year. Or less than a penny a day.

    I don't seem to need my multivitamin anymore - so maybe I will just buy a package when I run out of multis.
     
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