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Discussion in 'General' started by ski, Nov 28, 2018.
christmas time is coming around is 1 day really that bad on the grand scheme of things ?
It will reset your date of going vegan, if that is important to you. It's important to me as is my smoking quit date. I quit smoking 8/2014 and went vegan 2/2015. I'm protectibg my current stretches of abstinance from nicotine and animal products, so I would not make an exception one time a year and eat animal products or have one cigarette a year. Also, doing either of them even once would restart the addiction in my brain and give me the urge to use it again, which I do not have currently for either but did in the beginning.
The answer to the question is probably no.
If you're asking permission to eat turkey (or whatever else), you don't need to, up to you.
I personally wouldn't do it, decided to draw a firm line there.
I think that the question is, what urges you to do that? For example, if you'd give in to please your family, that could possibly cause resentment between you and your family in the long run.
To aswer your question, I don't think that it's a huge thing on the grand scheme of things, it's just a one day in a year. I think you are doing great if you refrain from eating animal based products 364 days a year! You are doing much better than most, better than I did in the beginning, actually.
Shall we begin when I was born to darkness, as I call it? That's really where we should start, don't you think?...1791 was the year it happened.
...No, wait... That wasn't my story. But I could tell you some of my experiences, if that would be helpful. I remember wishing for support and guidance, but didn't receive any.
When I was a new vegan, I would occasionally give in to urges. I would eat a little bit of pork during Chistmas, or if not that, I'd eat cheese and fish, and on other holidays I'd eat sugary treats that contained milk and eggs. Sometimes it'd make me feel bad afterwards, but on the other hand, I felt like I couldn't help myself. I really wanted the familiar taste that reminded me of more innocent and uncomplicated times. And I'm a people pleaser, so I wanted to prevent the usual family discussion that my veganism is "impossible" or "difficult" to them -explain, please, how hard it could have been for them as they didn't buy anything extra. And I didn't ask for anything. I ate fruit and bread at some christmas dinners, it was perfectly simple (but sucked for me. This Yule I'm going to prepare mashed potatoes with thai tofu).
Back then I called myself "almost-vegan" because I knew for certain that I was eventually going to become and stay vegan, but didn't want to force myself into something that I wasn't ready for.
Now-a-days I wouldn't eat animal-based, not even to please other humans. I'm fed up with humans and am assured that I should do as I know through my consciousness (not through my feelings, for feelings are deceitful) what is best for my health and sanity. From a personal stand point, it would be very conflicting if I'd eat animal-based during Yule because of the mental aspect of eating animals on a holiday that encourages humans to kill even more non-human animals, than on a regular weekday. I wouldn't eat animals on a weekday either, but Christmas specifically makes my vegan vitriol greater and I become even more headstrong about not eating animal products, but that's just me. Just to clarify that I'm not angry at other humans for eating what they like, as I see it, veganism is only my personal decision.
I think that pushing humans, either being vegan, or eating meat is both inefficient, everyone learns in own pace.
I think a good thought exercise is to replace your situation with another
for example: 364 days out of the year I dont steal money from the collection plate at church so I think I should be allowed to at least once per year.
Is what "that bad?" Eating an animal? Is it bad that an animal had to die for you to eat him/her just one day/year? Is that what you're asking? I don't believe that it's an acceptable thing to do, if you're calling yourself vegan. What do you have to gain from it? I'm confused.
Expressions such as "In the grand scheme of things” and “Only a drop in the ocean" and “What can one person do” and “Does it really matter if” all mean the same thing. They mean, “I can’t be bothered to do this. Ethics and principles can go hang.”
The question posed is one of a multitude that could be raised only by a newbie vegan. This is because many newbies are still at a stage where they feel they have given up things. They have given up meat. They have given up eggs. They have given up cheese. They are tempted to go back to them perhaps because of short term cravings or perhaps because of social pressures.
Established vegans just do not see things that way. They recognise the sacredness of life in all sentient beings. They promote a healthy lifestyle. They promote the welfare of Planet Earth. They are positive in their approach. This attitude is most succinctly stated by abolitionist Gary Francione:
“Veganism is not a sacrifice. It is a joy.”
There is no such thing as a 364-day vegan. They simply do not exist. Give it time and perseverance. It will come.
These are good questions, but probably for a different thread. Short answer - yes it's vastly better for your health, but the batteries and disposables are not good from an environmental perspective. There's also a different forum you might want to check it at e-cgaretteforum.com . There are a very small number of vegans there I believe.
Depends. Are you just eating desserts and cheese, or are you actually eating an animal? I don't think you can full on eat animals and still call yourself vegan.
But if you are plant based for health or environmental reasons then the answer is no.
On Thanksgiving I brought my Tofurky roast and veggies and homemade cranberry sauce to a friend's gathering. There, people loved the cranberries and a few tried the Tofurky. I also had to endure watching them eat not just a turkey, but a disgusting pigs butt, and overhear a casual conversation how animal bodies were two for one at some corporate grocery chain.
I have decided to avoid holidays with meat eaters. Vegetarians I can deal with but the celebration of overeating on corpses isn't something I want to be around anymore. I've even signed up to work on Christmas this year. Sure I can go to a holiday party with adult beverages and snacks but I'm steering clear of holiday dinners now.
I am a really good person. I live in the way everybody would agree is being a really good person. It is one certain day of the year that I kill babies. But I go back to the same good ways the rest of the year, all 364. So I am still a really good person.
Everyone has a right to say yes to that which serves their growth and wellbeing. And a right to feel their feelings, and tell about their feelings to others. And a right to be different. This is what I believe and protect.
I think your honesty is valuable, and if someone gets offended, you are not responsible, for you are solely protecting your sanity.
After reading your post, I have taken into consideration not to attend the next Yule dinner, if this year my stepfather reacts adversely to my veganism and starts raising his voice, making the whole dinner an distressing and threatening situation for me (I never say or do anything to provoke him, he just doesn't understand veganism and that makes him react). Problem is that the Christmas dinner is a big deal for my mom and brother, so it's going to be challenging to decline.
Your idea about celebrating on a separate day with some snaks and (in my case) tea sounds absolutely spectacular. If I only dare, I could suggest that to my mom and brother.
I told some of my experiences I had as a new vegan to ski here, for I got this picture that he is getting neither understanding nor support from his closest humans. And perhaps has trouble understanding himself with this new born vegan conviction, that's growing and forming in his brains. I thought that more casual approach would be encouraging.
But I might have jumped into conclusions too quickly.
Unnatural Vegan has some good videos about reducetarianism and how that could possibly help more people to think about veganism as an option, if veganism has before seem to them as something that's too hard to accomplish. Because for some people it can be hard, I firmly believe that most of us really have to want to be vegan before they become one. In reality it doesn't take sacrifices to be vegan, but most humans feel like it does, probably because of the learning curve.
i know what point you are trying to make but i don't value animals anywhere near a life of a human veganism is about reducing animal consumption/footprint i am probably going to eat meat for Christmas just to please family i don't have a relationship really with them me saying no i won't eat your food is just another thing to argue about
i dont want being vegan to the reason why i dont see family on christmas
Are you comfortable with cooking? I think that would be a nice way to both honor your personal choices while also contributing to your family meal. Maybe you could cook a nice vegan dish and maybe a desert if you have time. Sure, it might stink that you can only eat a thing or two at the get together, but you dont have to worry about the dilemma anymore AND you brought something for the rest of the family to enjoy!
Its a little extra work but I think it will be worth it. And if someone gives you gripe for it just be like "Dude I brought you food. FREE FOOD!"
Visiting with friends and family doesn't have to include eating with them. and if you're allowing other people to dictate what you eat, that is really not anyone else's problem to deal with but your own. I don't always pull the "vegan enough/not enough" card, but in this case, you're either vegan or you're not. You either eat animals or you don't. It's pretty simple. I don't understand the problem with sitting down to dinner with anyone and choosing a different meal, especially when you're considering eating their food to sacrifice any values you might have, and especially since you don't have a relationship with them "really." None of this makes sense to me. At the end of the day, this isn't about you or them. If these people don't really mean anything to you, as you say, what possible benefit is it going to do you to appease them at all for any reason? Is it really going to make you feel better as a person? Why not simply be who you are and let them deal with their own issues? Quite frankly, this is a bigger issue than being vegan. If you're willing to sacrifice your core values for someone/anyone, you might want to question the value of spending time with those people on any level.
Excellent idea. I cannot count the number of times I brought my own food to my former ex-inlaws' homes for holiday dinners. Everyone always loved what I brought. "Problem" solved.
Ok...but why couldn't you see them and still be vegan? Can you at least be vegetarian for a day instead of eating meat? I mean how vegan are you really if you'd actually eat an animal corpse? We could debate all day on if slaughter or milk or eggs are marginally cruller than each other, but on a psychological level there's really no "humane" way to kill an animal, and actually consuming a living being is further from being vegan than simply eating a pie or casserole containing dairy.
I mean, bring a holiday roast, there's so many in the grocery store. If you don't like Tofurky, there's Field Roast and others. If you don't like any of these products, make your own main dish with tofu or seitan. Then eat the vegetarian sides. Voila, holidays with family without eating a dead body.
I really don't even understand how this is even a thing, tbh, but I was vegetarian before vegan, and environment is my other reason besides animal liberation, so meat is entirely off the table in both scenarios. There's no environmentally sustainable diet that contains farmed animal flesh.
If you're "vegan" for health reasons, then obviously no one can stop you from having what you merely see as a cheat day.
Look, no one suggested you kill and eat a human, or kick or punch a human, or steal their bodily fluids. No one will starve or go hungry if you maintain your veganism.
I'm honestly guessing that your family is middle class, and all the "harm" this might do is mild discomfort or some cognitive dissonance for them, not exactly a personal tragedy.
I think you just don't like confrontation. So please spare me "I value human life over animal life" BS...no one said let your mom die in a fire so you can rescue the family goat. Please.