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Can someone please give me information about how dairy cattle are treated in the uk?

Discussion in 'Animals' started by Rory17, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Rory17

    Rory17 Member

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    Hi,
    I have been looking at comments about veganism on a different site. One woman was supposedly a dairy farmer’s wife and seems to think that dairy cattle are treated differently in the UK from the US, and that dairy cattle are treated well over here.
    Can someone please provide me with information and arguments against this?
    Thanks.
     
  2. Lou
    Cowabunga

    Lou Active Member

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    Someone once taught me that the best form of argument is questioning.

    So if you think its worth your time, you might ask some of these questions?

    What do you think happens to the boy babies?
    A well cared for cow can live up to 20 years. How old is the average dairy cow in the UK.?

    Maybe some other people can add some questions?
     
  3. Lou
    Cowabunga

    Lou Active Member

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  4. rogerjolly
    Breezy

    rogerjolly Active Member

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    Hi Rory,

    It might be worth having a re-read of “The dairy industry and agriculture” currently on page 2 of General. There are some really very good pointers there.

    It is a fact that UK animal welfare standards are amongst the highest in the world. The main vegan arguments should thus not be about that but about the morality of our bringing into life sentient creatures with the firm intention of having them killed when the whole process is so totally unnecessary.

    Hi Lou,
    By any chance did that someone go by the name of Socrates? ;)
    Another question for your list: What exactly is veal?

    Roger.
     
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  5. Veganite
    Relaxed

    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I might like to recommend watching the documentary "Cowspiracy" which is on Netflix. While it only briefly touches on the cruelty aspect of factory farming, it does give very important statistics on the impact of factory farming on the environment.

    It's pretty hard to ignore all the media attention the dairy industry gets as well. From the UK to the west coast of Canada, it would appear animal cruelty is alive and well in the dairy industry.

    https://metro.co.uk/2017/03/28/shoc...-crammed-into-cages-at-ms-dairy-farm-6538507/

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/05/19/dairy-workers-cow-abuse_n_16700964.html

    This article sums up a vegan's point of view quite well. Just read the ridiculous arguments from the dairy farmer on how taking the calf from the mother is a good thing for the animal:

    https://freefromharm.org/animal-pro...concern-about-separating-calves-from-mothers/

    There is no way around this aspect of animal cruelty. Any way you slice it taking a baby away from its mother is cruel. There's nothing any farmer can say to change this fact.


    *
     
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  6. Lou
    Cowabunga

    Lou Active Member

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    I think Socrates used questions as the best form of teaching. I think the someone I was referring to was Colleen Patrick Goudreau.
     
  7. Lou
    Cowabunga

    Lou Active Member

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    I like the unnecessary argument. How necessary or essential can milk be when most of the world's population can't drink it?
     
  8. rogerjolly
    Breezy

    rogerjolly Active Member

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    The first two links you give appear to be about illegal practices. There are animal welfare groups (some of which contain vegan activists but some do not) who bring these now relatively rare practices in the UK to the fore. Not only are UK laws on animal welfare amongst the strongest in the world but we are ahead in the battle against the indiscriminate use of antibiotics for dairy cattle. I understand that the antibiotics debate has hardly yet raised its head in the USA.

    For some time the Vegan Society has been running its “Grow Green” campaign which seeks to convert livestock farmers to growing plant foods headed straight for the kitchen without animals being intermediaries. This will only succeed by using ethical, economic and environmental arguments. It will not succeed by highlighting illegal welfare practices. Just about everybody already agrees that they are wrong. It’s a bit like burglary. Everybody knows that it is wrong but there are still some burglars at large.

    Most people who keep livestock firmly and truly believe that their animals lead contented lives. Believe me, I know. I have been there. And like Kevin in “The dairy industry and agriculture” they have to convince themselves that “It’s a hard truth but as soon as a cow becomes unprofitable ……” And again, like Kevin, they have to believe that it is OK to send an animal to slaughter because welfare standards in slaughter houses are high. UK Vegans will not win the day by using animal welfare arguments. And they will not win elsewhere by using animal welfare arguments. They will merely end up with the situation we currently have in the UK. That might be an improvement but it is not what vegans want.

    Which brings me back to Rory’s original query: People in the UK dairy industry in a small way are the ones who are most likely to know their animals as individuals and who believe they are doing their very best for them. They would be amongst the very first to abhor poor animal welfare. And they will only be converted to making their livings from growing crops when they begin to understand the immorality of raising animals to be killed. We also need to persuade more of the general population who are mostly animal welfarists of the same thing. That will change the economics and there is nothing quite like pure economics to turn a farmer’s head.

    Sorry if I have produced a rather overlong and over-boring essay here! :)

    Roger.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  9. Lou
    Cowabunga

    Lou Active Member

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    Good job, Roger.

    You brought up the term "animal welfarists', but didn't mention the other school of thought, "abolitionist veganism".
    In the context of this thread, it too should be mentioned.

    An abolitionist believes the entire animal welfare issue is beside the point and just a distraction from the real issue. Abolitionists oppose all animal use by humans on moral grounds.

    http://www.abolitionistapproach.com...f-the-abolitionist-approach-to-animal-rights/
     
  10. Sally
    Joyful

    Sally Active Member

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  11. veganDreama

    veganDreama Active Member

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    I didn't get that impression when I visited an agricultural college and witnessed how badly the pigs were being kept. That's what got me to give up meat in the first place.

    If the UK has the best care I shudder to think what the worst is!
     
  12. rogerjolly
    Breezy

    rogerjolly Active Member

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    The World Animal Protection Index is an award of animal welfare grades to each of the fifty countries which are the biggest producers of meat and dairy products.

    The highest scoring (band A) were the UK, Austria, Switzerland and New Zealand. Australia managed a C. Canada and the USA each scored a lowly D.

    The lowest scoring band G was not defined as absolutely grim but rather as having the most room for improvement.

    Considering the terrible carnage inflicted every day on animals in the UK I really do not see how Brits can take much comfort from our lofty classification. Surely it merely reinforces the argument that we vegans should concentrate our efforts on abolitionism rather than animal welfare.

    Roger

    https://api.worldanimalprotection.org/
     
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