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Coconut oil..worried

Discussion in 'Food' started by Bec, May 10, 2018.

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  1. Bec

    Bec Member

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    Coconut oil tends to be in lot of vegan foods. I love coconut yoghurt and found they contain it in several foods I’m trying..thing is it has a massive amount of saturated fat. It could cause heart disease but not proven. This worries me as heart disease is big in family and I’m ingesting lots of coconut oil.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
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  2. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I am in a similar situation. I have a history of CAD in my family. My mother died at age 59 from a heart attack, so I do understand your concerns. I suggest you watch Doctor Esselstyn's video "No Oil!" and read his book, if you can. I also suggest you watch all of his material. Subscribe to any related YT channels. There are NO healthy oils...not even in moderation.

    I, personally, will make the odd exception for things like pastry crusts or things that just don't work without oil, but only for very special occasions.

    Oh, Doctor's Klaper, McDougall, Barnard, and many more plant-based doctor's also have a wealth of information on this subject.

    Also, learning to cook without oil is not that difficult. Again, YouTube has a wealth of information on the subject, and recipes too.

    Hope this helps give you a clearer picture of the risks.



     
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  3. Bec

    Bec Member

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    Wow.....that sucks...how do you cook food without oil though?
     
  4. Consistency
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    Consistency Active Member Banned

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    Heart disease isn't caused by saturated fat just as omega 6's aren't inflammatory but over consumption of fat will lead to weight gain and health problems. Oxidized lipids on the other hand are inflammatory such as oxidized lipids from french fries fried in oil will cause inflammation in the artery walls and so will eating burnt animal flesh.

    A good amount of extra virgin olive oil on the market is adulterated with rancid/oxidized oils.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=adulteration+of+olive+oil

    I lived and grew up in Italy where the law is very firm towards punishing those who try to mix cheaper oils with extra virgin olive oil however the law isn't so firm in North America. Real EVOO is indispensable.
     
  5. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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  6. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Was there something about Doctor Esselstyn's "NO OIL" video you didn't understand or believe? NO OIL! Not even non-adulterated ones!

    Maybe you don't have a history of heart disease in your family, but I do, as does the original poster. Are you trying to say oil is okay?



     
  7. hopeful
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    hopeful Active Member

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    Wow, that's interesting! I always thought olive oil was healthy! Then I heard whole plant sources are better, like olives being better, but I was seriously under the impression that olive oil and flax oil were healthy. I will need to look into these videos.
     
  8. Consistency
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    Consistency Active Member Banned

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    Real olive oil is more than just ok. If real olive oil was really bad as those videos claim.. the best technology wouldn't be coming from Italy. Ferrari's, lamborghini, etc...

    I get heart disease also if I start eating french fries regardless of the type of oil used when frying because the fatty acids heat up and break down into lipid peroxides, which are inflammatory.

    I don't get heart disease by adding real olive oil raw to my food.

    We humans didn't get this big brain of fat by eating low fat as elephants and squirrels don't have big brains by avoiding fat.
     
  9. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You cannot argue with the science. The science is overwhelming. Show me your science, if you're so convinced oil is healthy for you. Please be sure the studies aren't funded by the agriculture industry.

    Regardless of a cold first press from fresh olives, you are still consuming 100% fat when you consume olive oil. (fat = lipids) Olive oil contains both polyunsaturated fat and monounsaturated. It will clog your arteries, which is why Doctor Esselstyn does not advise any amount of oil...not olive oil, coconut, canola, and not in any amounts. Hence the name of the video 'NO OIL'. They don't even recommend it in moderation. I suppose they're just making this up though. *sarcasm*

    Not one of these plant-based vegan doctors recommend oil...not even a little bit. So you are saying all these plant-based doctor's, including doctor's Esselstyn, Klaper, Goldhamer, Greger, McDougall, Davis, Kahn, and so many many more don't know what they're talking about? They have all the science...where's yours?

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109700008962

    https://www.nmcd-journal.com/article/S0939-4753(05)00213-9/pdf

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14525676

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909

    http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/study05/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100124/

    https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/halt-heart-disease-with-a-plant-based-oil-free-diet-



     
  10. Consistency
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    Consistency Active Member Banned

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    What part didn't you understand that the majority of olive oils(EVOO) are adulterated? Therefore all the science you listed is faulty to begin with.

    If you don't understand that the real purpose of LDL(fatty acid transport protein) is to get fatty acids from the liver to the heart so the heart can use the fatty acids as fuel, then you've misunderstood how the body works.

    Real science:

    Stress, inflammation and cardiovascular disease.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11801260

    https://www.google.com/search?q=air+pollution+atherosclerosis

    Consumption of Fried Foods and Risk of Heart Failure in the Physicians' Health Study
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4579942/
     
  11. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    @Consistency

    You have only provided supporting evidence in my favour, or non-related evidence, in the case of air pollution. That's not even good cherry picking. You have not provided one study that says olive oil is healthy for you. We all know fried foods are bad for you. We also know that stress is a killer. What you have provided proves nothing, except that your bold caption works!

    So if you're saying doctor Esselstyn and the research he's done is all incorrect...I mean, he spells it out quite clearly, doesn't he? He doesn't say unadulterated oils are okay for healthy hearts, does he? No, he says "No OIL!" period! Seeing as you are NOT a doctor, I choose to put my heart health in his hands.

    Besides, we already know fried foods are bad for us. What doctor Esselstyn is saying is it's not just the fat in frying foods. Oils do not flow out of the olive naturally, which makes it a processed food, not a whole food. The oil from any food that's been extracted is now nothing but pure fat.

    I know the purpose of healthy fats in the system. We get plenty from whole foods. No processed foods are necessary in maintaining good health. The mediterranean diet myth was debunked a long time ago. So if you want to damage your endothelial cells, knock yourself out. I think I'll take doctor Esselstyn's, advise over yours.

    Dr. Kim Williams, an American cardiologist, is using an "oil free" whole foods plant-based diet to treat his patients. Again, I'll take the advise of a cardiologists over yours, but thanks for your opinion. It was worth a chuckle.


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  12. Consistency
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    Consistency Active Member Banned

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    I've provided evidence that the majority of extra virgin olive oil in North America is adulterated with cheap oxidized seed oils. Therefore those studies are faulty. Are you going to address this?

    The lives of most people including yourself are full of chronic stress, overconsumption of food and exposure to air pollution. It's a compounded effect. Then you have the odacity to blame real evoo on your inability to spot that you're being fooled and your gluttony.
     
  13. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The first thing doctor Esselstyn says in the video is "NO OIL!" and then he says "why?" and then answers himself, "the data". There's been enough legit studies to show this is not isolated to just olive oil either. Hence the "NO OIL!" bold statement made by doctor Esselstyn. The data is overwhelming, but some people either don't read or refuse to believe the evidence. I can't fix stupid.

    There's enough evidence here in this thread for the original poster to weed through and make up their own mind what the healthier course of action is. The last thing people need on this forum is a troll creating a flame war over something like this, which is what you seem to thrive on. So no, I am not going to feed into your little uneducated debate. I have said enough already that people can decide for themselves. Besides, you have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to think the expert doctors are all wrong. I can't change your opinion, and I don't care to try.

    As I said, I will take the advice of plant-based doctors, leading cardiologists, and WFPB nutritionists over you. You are obviously not an expert or even remotely qualified. You have made your opinion, and I reject it. Moving on now. Have a wonderful day.

    @Bec

    I hope the debate didn't put you off visiting our forum. I have provided some solid information for you. I highly recommend watching the documentaries "Eating You Alive", "Forks Over Knives", and "What The Health". They will support the same thing I've said in this thread about all sources of processed oils, regardless of the quality. NO OIL!



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  14. Consistency
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    Consistency Active Member Banned

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    Those who need to resort to being condescending are actually not smart. There is an overwhelming amount of data on how harmful grains.

    I will take the advice of my grandma that lived to 98 and swore by her real olive oil over some unhealthy skinny guy with a fancy piece of paper.
     
  15. Emma JC
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    Emma JC Active Member

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    I am with Veganite all the way here and wrote an article about it some months ago. I believe it is posted here somewhere and here is a link to it on my website.
    http://cooljoy.com/fat-versus-oil.html

    Back to the question of cooking without oil, it is simple and we have been brainwashed into believing that oils must go into all our cooking and baking. Mic the Vegan's video is very good and the hardest part is just getting over believing that we have to.

    When I saute garlic and onion and veggies I use brine from my olive jars or caper jars or jalapeno jars and it adds extra flavour. Applesauce in my pancakes and any other baking that I do.

    We do need fats in our diet and yet we do not need oil. Fats in olives and avocados and nuts etc have their nutrients and fibre with them and so are much healthier than squeezed oils.

    Emma JC
     
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  16. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member

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    I think that it is worth noting that in the Greger video the offset to the bad effects of an isolated fat (even a "good fat" such as Extra Virgin Olive oil) is enough fiber. That would make sense in light of the fact that olives have both fat and fiber in the proportions Nature gives them. It seems one of the main problems with adding fat (even a healthy one) is that it is easy to add too much, and the less fiber in the meal, the more the effects of adding too much multiply.

    I think it is also worth noting that when discussing fats the arguments are too easily simplified into "this is good" and "this is bad" or "this causes disease" and "this doesn't". The science does weigh in heavily against saturated fat from animals and against trans fats/hydrogenated/partially hydrogenated fats. These are always unhealthy. That said, I think it's easy to shoot yourself in the foot avoiding a tiny bit of trans fat and then slathering on the Extra Virgin Olive Oil thinking it's healthy - especially so in a meal that doesn't have the fiber equivalent of what is found in nature.

    Currently I add fats to some of my meals (olive and sesame primarily) in small amounts. It would almost definitely be better if I was adding nut and seed butters instead. That being said, there is a third argument that is often brought up, about need.

    Not everyone's needs for fat and quantity of fat is the same, some people have altered fats in their brain (as what happens with long term alcohol abuse), and some people may even be deficient in enough healthy fat if they have been super restricting it (even from whole foods). All that said, the argument is often made that we need fat to build our brains. That is correct, provided it's a healthy and unaltered Omega 3/6 fat that hasn't been destroyed through super heating an isolated version of it (as in frying). But people making the argument to justify massive amount of added isolated fat in general are not doing their sums. Yes, the brain is made of a lot of fat, but add up what the average joe is consuming in a year and it probably far outweighs, literally, the amount used to build brain cells.
     
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  17. Consistency
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    Consistency Active Member Banned

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    I agree with what Nekodaiden said. Being extreme isn't right. Learning to use a spoon when adding limited amounts of quality oil to food is key.

    I often see unhealthy people pouring oil straight out of the bottle in excessive amounts. The food is covered in oil and then they have the audacity to blame all oil for their inability to learn something new and simple.

    I like the following article.

    http://www.smartnutritionbykg.com/moderation-is-key-to-benefits-of-using-olive-oil/
     
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