Comparing goat-to Cow dairy production

[william_]

I understand that cattle has been bred over the millennia to produce much much more milk than their offspring could ever consume—which is bad. Has the same thing happened to goats?

Will a goat lactate even when without offspring? This quora thread suggests some breeds do. If so, do they do so naturally? in which case I would guess that they are not in any danger if not milked; perhaps in such a case the goat absorbs its own milk for its own nourishment, a bit like a camel? I know that cows, on the other hand, become in great danger if not milked.

I would like it if there was a goat that would lactate even when without offspring and which would not come to any harm nor discomfort if it was not milked, as then I could have its milk without worrying about it. However, I imagine it's a fantasy and that such a goat does not exist; and that even if it did, whoever would farm it commercially—even a very good ethical organic farm—would surely have it intensively breed so as to maximize its dairy-yield. Furthermore, even if the goat would not over-produce, I would never be able to guarantee that the farmer would not have taken the milk from the goat when the goat was with offspring—even if the goat was not subjected to intensive breeding—thusly depriving that natural offspring from its rightful milk.

Wheresoever may I find the golden goat..?

 

[shyvas]

Milk belongs to the calf and the kid. Animals are not ours to be used or abused.

Moreover, if you're a vegan you don't consume dairy.

 

[Emma JC]

and... why would you wish to inject another animal's lactation? as @shyvas said it is for babies and young children...

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[deadknight]

I understand that cattle has been bred over the millennia to produce much much more milk than their offspring could ever consume—which is bad. Has the same thing happened to goats?

Will a goat lactate even when without offspring? This quora thread suggests some breeds do. If so, do they do so naturally? in which case I would guess that they are not in any danger if not milked; perhaps in such a case the goat absorbs its own milk for its own nourishment, a bit like a camel? I know that cows, on the other hand, become in great danger if not milked.

I would like it if there was a goat that would lactate even when without offspring and which would not come to any harm nor discomfort if it was not milked, as then I could have its milk without worrying about it. However, I imagine it's a fantasy and that such a goat does not exist; and that even if it did, whoever would farm it commercially—even a very good ethical organic farm—would surely have it intensively breed so as to maximize its dairy-yield. Furthermore, even if the goat would not over-produce, I would never be able to guarantee that the farmer would not have taken the milk from the goat when the goat was with offspring—even if the goat was not subjected to intensive breeding—thusly depriving that natural offspring from its rightful milk.

Wheresoever may I find the golden goat..?

Goats are abused and exploited exactly the same way as cattle. The only difference is that their corpses are not that profitable to sell, since most carnists are quite picky about what kind of dead animals they desire to eat - they usually don't want to eat dead goats.

I highly recommend that you find some school textbooks on basic biology so that you can understand no mammal would naturally lactate without offspring. Not believing everything you read on Quora - or anywhere else on the internet - might be beneficial for you.

Why on earth would you want to get a magical goat whom you could exploit without bad conscience? Do you believe yourself to be a newborn goat who needs milk from his/her Ma?
What's your idea about a very good ethical organic farm? Keeping animals in captivity ethically, abusing animals ethically - think of touching something so intime as an animal's udders (breasts!) - and stealing from them ethically, how does that happen? How could you make it happen without worrying about it?
And how do you think being "organic" would make it better?

Each and every time someone consumes milk, they deprive the natural offspring from its rightful milk. The only rightful milk for you as a human was that you got from your own mother when you were a small child. When you are big enough, your mom stops breatfeeding you because you don't need more milk. That's it.

I wonder how old you are, but after reaching the age of 8...9 years, most people stop believing in fairy tales. Those about the golden goat are no exceptions.

 

[Lou]

I feel that everyone here who has posted is looking thru a First World lens.
Goats can and already are a third world solution.
Not Goat dairy's or Goat feedlots, or what ever you are picturing.
instead think of one or two goats per family.
Goats can subsit on food waste, and forage that in inaccessible or unavilable.

Goat meat can be a good source of protein for an impoverished family
In some areas, goat milk is somethimes the only source of protein for children.
Goats can provide needed extra income. and also goats can be raised my women and children.

 

[deadknight]

I feel that everyone here who has posted is looking thru a First World lens.
Goats can and already are a third world solution.
Not Goat dairy's or Goat feedlots, or what ever you are picturing.
instead think of one or two goats per family.
Goats can subsit on food waste, and forage that in inaccessible or unavilable.

Goat meat can be a good source of protein for an impoverished family
In some areas, goat milk is somethimes the only source of protein for children.
Goats can provide needed extra income. and also goats can be raised my women and children.

I am indeed very surprised by reading such opinions of a fellow vegan!

I wonder if you have read this?

Reasons to Say NO to Animal Gifting

Don't "give a goat" or "send a cow." There are better ways to feed people in need.

awellfedworld.org

Nobody should think it is good either for the goats or for the owners.

Yes, goats can survive on food waste - but it is certainly not ideal for them. And they do need water - in areas that are dry, and water is needed for the human population, even one or two goats per family might make a huge difference.

Have you thought about how much pwotein can come from one slaughtered goat, and how well - and for how long - does it feed a whole family? (Also, slaughtering a goat is not an easy job. They are very smart and strong. I have heard about people losing fingers while attempting to slaughter goats.)

Children in 3rd world countries should not be busy raising goats for the family. They should be at school. Period.

 

[silva]

I feel that everyone here who has posted is looking thru a First World lens.
Goats can and already are a third world solution.
Not Goat dairy's or Goat feedlots, or what ever you are picturing.
instead think of one or two goats per family.
Goats can subsit on food waste, and forage that in inaccessible or unavilable.

Goat meat can be a good source of protein for an impoverished family
In some areas, goat milk is somethimes the only source of protein for children.
Goats can provide needed extra income. and also goats can be raised my women and children.

That is true.
I look at being vegan in the same pragmatic way I see most things. If you don't need to intrude on someones life you shouldn't.
I'm always surprised that others don't agree that the more means people have the more ethical they should live. Those with more disposable incomes and comfy lives should be the ones held to higher standards--patronizing small sustainable sources, etc. Those living paycheck to paycheck, struggling with a family, they're the ones where possible and practical really applies

When people are struggling animals are also struggling. There is never reason for abuse, but there are needs for keeping a symbiotic relationship.

 

[Tom L.]

Hi, @william_ .

I think the concerns you mentioned are valid. I don't know much about raising dairy animals, but they must become pregnant before they start producing milk. Given good care, I think the goat will keep producing lesser amounts of milk even after their kids are weaned- but eventually they will stop producing it until they have kids again. So there's the problem of what you would do with the baby goats once they were grown (and probably not drinking milk anymore?).

I haven't addressed the question about whether the milk is ours to take, even if we take good care of the goats.

 

[william_]

Hi, @william_ .

I think the concerns you mentioned are valid. I don't know much about raising dairy animals, but they must become pregnant before they start producing milk. Given good care, I think the goat will keep producing lesser amounts of milk even after their kids are weaned- but eventually they will stop producing it until they have kids again. So there's the problem of what you would do with the baby goats once they were grown (and probably not drinking milk anymore?).

I haven't addressed the question about whether the milk is ours to take, even if we take good care of the goats.

Thank you for that intelligent and informative reply.