Do you prioritise pigs cows,chickens over dogs & cats?

[Mork]

Do you prioritize pigs cows and chickens over dogs and cats in your vegan efforts?

Where does most of your effort go?

Im shocked that many vegans put dogs and cats behind farm animals, or say they dont but do.

Quite frankly im shocked they are put on equal terms with dogs and cats, since most of us are brought up as kids with dogs cats rabbits etc but not with pigs cows or chickens.

I dont eat meat but im mostly focused on helping dogs and cats, thats where my money goes (charity) and efforts.

Granted there's no moral reason why dogs should be above pigs, (except maybe more loyalty) or above chickens (except perhaps a richer life experience) but there are good likely hoods that we will prefer companion animals being brought up with them and all.

But alot of vegans seem to have the opposite opinion and seem to prefer farm animals to companion animals

 

[Mork]

Also what meat do you feed your dog/cat if you have one? I prefer fish and chicken for my pet food because higher animals have a richer life to take away, and they probably feel more than less complex animals.

Do you rotate all animals beef chicken fish ?

 

[Mischief]

Actually, I think most people prioritize dogs and cats over farmed animals.

 

[Nekodaiden]

As "vegan" (as I accept the term) is an adjective to describe my chosen diet, and not anything beyond that, "a vegan effort" means an effort to eat only from the plant kingdom. It doesn't include being "anti-speciesist" or anything with relation to one animal over another.

To put this to an example: My cat eats a kibble that is largely grain, but does contain some animal products. She also hunts (but far less than she used to since becoming accustomed to said kibble). One could say I'm favoring the cat with my purchase, or by not discouraging it to hunt and keeping it on a strictly vegan diet, but I would consider that cruel and unnatural for a cat. Unless it is proven that felines can thrive on a vegan diet (this has not been proven to my satisfaction even though it has been attempted on this board) - then it's safe to say I am being a speciesist by choosing to feed my friend over letting it starve or risk starvation by fending for itself.

Then again, the large amount of protein from grains might not even be present in it's diet if it were wild, in which case more local wildlife would die.

Anyway, the "anti-speciesist" arguments fall short imo. Can vegans domesticate and ride horses? In our modern age of mechanized transport, many would say no. But if it's " o k " to do it lacking the mechanical means - then veganism (as an extension beyond dietary choices) isn't timeless but merely convenient.

 

[wheatieDOG397vegan]

Even though I don't eat any meat I care more about the dogs and cats than other animals.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

Interesting truthful replies seen here...

The OP thought vegans were odd to care about farm animals is clear from the mistaken view he had that vegans care more about farm animals than pet ones.


As the truthful honest replies showed....that is not true...most people due to being familiar with PET animals species always think those are more important...for what they "get" as pleasure from them obviously.

Anyone who has lived in close contact with any tamed animal...chicken...dog...turkey...pig...knows full well they all have emotional feelings and physical feelings that are those of ALL sentient beings...we humans are animals too...just because we have cognitive skills different to other animals for communicating and use of tools etc...does not mean other animals do not have HIGHER feelings of SENSES of pain or sense generally higher than ours..sense of smell is an obvious higher sensation non humans have by thousands more sense...

"can they feel ?" is the main simple question about whether any sentient being deserves to live and has value to live in this world.

The fact is...we humans are so "utilitarian" meaning selfish we only VALUE those animals we "get" things from...like tail wagging affection of dogs or purrings of cats ...when in fact...any animal used to human presence will show appreciation...we humans only pick the "easy" ones to ponce about with as pets in our homes and on leads out walking like pathetic slaves of ours.

ps the OP chap went on to say...he sees no problem breeding and killing animals to feed the in his view "higher species" pet dogs and cat animals.

What a very racist if we were talking about humans with different physiques thing to say...but we call that "speciesism" when talking about prefering some species to others.

This same person...no doubt has a hierachy of species of animals he would SAVE in preference to others...

for example...elephants tigers urang utangs...in preference to some untrendy going extinct monkey species or boring to him wild bird species like the turtle doves and so many amazon forest birds and other animal species gone extinct that are not TRENDY to coo about.


However...i even suggest...it is not really important to "save an elephant" or elephants as a species or a lion...or tiger...only 23 thousand wild lions left in the world...and 4 thousand wild tigers left...it is not important to focus on saving those left as much as saving millions of bred and killed farm chickens lives


Quantity of lives saved is why i justify my criteria for that judgement.

I am not impressed...by someone eating a baby lamb roast leg whilst ranting about "save the stranded whale" somewhere

Nor am i impressed...by anyone donating to feed prisoner dogs and cats in cages of rescues feeding them bred and killed thousands of baby chickens lambs turkeys etc...

If of no USE as PETS...why keep them in pathetic isolation as prisoners and cause thousands of deaths of other animalsl also kept in cages for their short lives ? kill the unwanted recue dogs and cats rather than the waste of time funding their prisoner status and breeding and killing thousands of farm animals...who cause the extinction of many wild life animals as the forests are cleared 80 percent due to growing farm animal soy feeds

Summary of reasons for feeding dogs cats ferrets readily available vegan pet foods that have been out for over 30 years without any recalls.

1. They have been sold publically with never any recalls, not one, never any published cases of sick or dead pets due to the foods for over 30 years now world wide.

There have been in contrast THOUSANDS of deaths and sick dogs and cats from proven caused by pet foods of non vegan content. In 2020...5 out of 7 recalls by the government pet food authorities were RAW pet foods.

Those FACTS are easily verifiable as the Government Food Authorities publish public notices of recalls of petfoods easily found by a simple google search and reproduced in many websites and online sources.

2. There are government pet food authorities who set the standards and control recalls of any lacking or causing serious health or death problems pet foods.

In the USA this is the FDA and the standard setters are AAFCO. In Europe this is the FEDIAF.

These are independant nutrition scientific experts...not earning from selling any pet foods but independant standard setters and controllers of pet foods.

3. All pet foods sold publically have by law to be "species appropriate" and by labels state if "complete" and for what life stages.

There are laws governing these issues and therefore it is totally incorrect to speak of vegan pet foods not being "species appropriate" as by LAW that is what they are if sold to the public.


4. There are many health benefits well documented from freeding vegan pet foods.

There are many prescription pet foods that since decades have been mostly vegan to cure many health problems in many dogs and cats.

Both those statements are easily verifiable by easy google searches and knowledge of what are in prescription pet foods and why. Many cats dogs have allergies to animal pet foods is a fact.

Many heart diseases are alleviated by feeding plant based foods.

5. Many not peer reviewed websites make erroneous statements about vegan pet foods.

One has to be aware of influences of the meat industry on those linked to earning from the pet foods they recommend.

TAURINE is a matter many seemingly knowledgeable websites get very wrong....and any review of the details on labels on pet foods of the TAURINE content would reveal that it is synthetic so vegan in all commercial cat foods so those claiming it is only found in meat and that vegan cat foods would make a cat go blind or die due to lack of taurine...are totally wrong...and have not understood the first point about PET FOOD LAWS controlling pet foods as well as the taurine nutrient source of all commercial cat foods.


Those are the NUTRITIONAL reasons for feeding cats and dogs vegan.


Now to the ETHICAL VEGAN reason.



6. Veganism means..."animals are not ours to use"

So breeding and killing animals is simply not vegan.


7. Cruelty...ethical not legal cruelty...is an important distinction.

One needs to realise...there is a difference between "cruelty" as defined by the LAW...for which animal welfare act laws exist...which allow killing of animals legally as not cruel as defined by the law...nor is vegan legal pet food "cruel" of course per the law.

The ETHICAL judgemental view of "cruelty" that sees as veganism does the breeding and killing of animals as "cruelty" is what vegans believe in ethically.

Therefore...there is a huge distinction between describing feeding an animal food as cruel as compared to killing an animal.

The 2 actions are totally incomparable i suggest. Anyone who thinks they are similar needs to re examine their ideas or explain why they would be similar.





Before anyone writes accusing anyone of "cruelty" and "forcing things on animals" again on this topic...

Can i ask..that ALL such comments.....include mention of the "cruelty" of "forcing death" on forced into existance as prisoners captive baby life stage animals owned by humans.

Describe...what "cruelty" is involved in putting food in a dish that an animal clearly thrives on and does not ever die of...compared to..the "cruelty" of force breeding animals and forcing them to die as babies ? i mean most killed animals are between 1 day old and a few months old when killed by humans...so far...there are 20 year old healthy vegan fed cats around and less old vegan fed dogs albeit Bramble famous example lived to age 25 similarly to her unrelated companion dogs.

There are legal definitions of what "cruelty" to animals is...and nowhere is pet food included as one of them.

Morally if not legally cruelty is surely killing baby animals ? if anyone does not think so...then explain that or admit one is not vegan if not believing this to be true.

Do people talking of "forcing things" on animals owned by humans think animals owned by humans that are slaughtered to willingly to their deaths ?

Do people talking of "forcing things on animals humans own" not think forcing death on these animals is not forcing them ?


My view....is that "animals are not ours to use"

So as baby chicks...lambs...turkeys...fish...are not ours to use...i have no right as a vegan to take their lives.

What is not mine...is not mine to take the life of.


i see no cruelty meaning suffering or death in 20 year old vet tested healthy vegan cats and vet tested healthy long lived vegan dogs. Bramble 25 years lived healthy vegan dog famous example is well known and several companions fed the same not related dogs lived similar long lives with Anne Heritage the owner.

Working Huskies scientific peer reviwed studies showed vegan fed working huskies out per formed the meat fed ones...and there is no breed needing more high quality energy than a working huskey.

That study as well as other PEER REVIEWED scientific studies on vegan diets for pet dogs and cats and reference to Little Tyke the famous vegetarian Lioness in the USA who never ate meat at all and never had any health issues due to diet are referenced in this website in particular of highly qualified international expert Dr Andrew Knight...

www.vegepets.com

PEER REVIEWED means not just individual vet or individual scientist views...but checked verified as independant valid conclusions by independant experts.



Andrew Knight BSc (Vet Biol), BVMS, CertAW, MANZCVS, DipECAWBM (AWSEL), DipACAW, PhD, FRCVS, PFHEA


Andrew Knight is a ridiculously busy bloke. He is Professor of Animal Welfare and Ethics, and Founding Director of the Centre for Animal Welfare, at the University of Winchester; a EBVS European and RCVS Veterinary Specialist in Animal Welfare Science, Ethics and Law; an American and New Zealand Veterinary Specialist in Animal Welfare; a Fellow of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, and a Principal Fellow of the UK Higher Education Academy.

Andrew has over 65 academic publications and a series of YouTube videos on animal issues. These include an extensive series examining the contributions to human healthcare of animal experiments, which formed the basis for his 2010 PhD and his 2011 book The Costs and Benefits of Animal Experiments. Andrew’s other publications have examined the contributions of the livestock sector to climate change, vegetarian companion animal diets, the animal welfare standards of veterinarians, and the latest evidence about animal cognitive and related abilities, and the resultant moral implications. His informational websites include www.AnimalExperiments.info, www.HumaneLearning.info and www.VegePets.info

 

[Gaspard]

I prioritize farmed animals. I did street acivism for farmed animals. I never did anything for dogs and cats except taking care of my friends or parent's pets.
I must say I'm disturbed that peta insists very much on pets when farmed animals are surffering on a massive scale.

 

[fakei]

It is not difficult to see the moral dilema in having to feed an animal with another animal when one has become a vegetarian to avoid animal cruelty. Of course one might question where is there the moral difference between someone who consumes animal products because he feels better that way and someone who keeps an animal who consumes animal products because he (the owner) feels better that way. Not to mention that pet nutrition also has a heavy environmental impact.

Although more complex there is also the issue of the welfare of the pet itself.

Once was lectured by a vegan friend on the difference between loving (wanting the best for) and desiring (wanting the pleasure of, in this case of company or possession).

The above refers to people thinking about aquiring animals, since for animals previously aquired there is a responsibility that was assumed with the animal. Abandoning an animal is also an act of animal cruelty and can also have serious environmental consequences.

The " having been raised that way" doesn't make much sense because if it is valid it invalidates any change away from childhood habits.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

I prioritize farmed animals. I did street acivism for farmed animals. I never did anything for dogs and cats except taking care of my friends or parent's pets.
I must say I'm disturbed that peta insists very much on pets when farmed animals are surffering on a massive scale.

I Thu.k pet a like all animal charities struggled to get funds other than for pet dogs and cats

 

[Vegan Dogs]

It is not difficult to see the moral dilema in having to feed an animal with another animal when one has become a vegetarian to avoid animal cruelty. Of course one might question where is there the moral difference between someone who consumes animal products because he feels better that way and someone who keeps an animal who consumes animal products because he (the owner) feels better that way. Not to mention that pet nutrition also has a heavy environmental impact.

Although more complex there is also the issue of the welfare of the pet itself.

Once was lectured by a vegan friend on the difference between loving (wanting the best for) and desiring (wanting the pleasure of, in this case of company or possession).

The above refers to people thinking about aquiring animals, since for animals previously aquired there is a responsibility that was assumed with the animal. Abandoning an animal is also an act of animal cruelty and can also have serious environmental consequences.

The " having been raised that way" doesn't make much sense because if it is valid it invalidates any change away from childhood habits.

There is no sense in keeping a pet and feeding them bred by humans and killed by humans prisoner animals.

I have dogs and cat and Turkeys fed vegan.

 

[fakei]

There is no sense in keeping a pet and feeding them bred by humans and killed by humans prisoner animals.

I have dogs and cat and Turkeys fed vegan.

First of all this is not pointing fingers. We are all in the same boat as we live in a society where having animals is associated with liking animals. And like said this doesn't apply to preexisting pets but to aquiring new ones in the future.

Having pets also raises other problems besides being fed vegan diets or not including the environmental impact due to the fact that animals in the wild don't eat packaged processed food.

Doesn't taurine come from animal sources BTW?

 

[Vegan Dogs]

First of all this is not pointing fingers. We are all in the same boat as we live in a society where having animals is associated with liking animals. And like said this doesn't apply to preexisting pets but to aquiring new ones in the future.

Having pets also raises other problems besides being fed vegan diets or not including the environmental impact due to the fact that animals in the wild don't eat packaged processed food.

Doesn't taurine come from animal sources BTW?

Sigh all taurine in pet food is vegan...synthetic