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Do you think its a bit stupid to not eat meat if its lab grown?

Discussion in 'Food' started by Sam, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. Sam

    Sam Member

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    So no animal suffers, not even for the initial gathering of cells to grow?

    If you dont encourage lab grown meat with your spending it might not be successful, which would hurt animals alot more.

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. mikek
    Surfing

    mikek Member

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    i was discussing this with my daughter the other day!
    i think it might be the answer!
    entirely lab grown. I.E. meat cells, but never an actual animal, just a lump of protein, then i seroiusly can't see any problem.
    kinda like a carnivore version of Quorn.

    i believe 10 yrs & it may be on the shelves.

    would i eat it? no way. but if i was a meat eater i think i would.

    what is the current situation with it? is it a real thing for food yet?
     
  3. Sam

    Sam Member

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    So what if your lack of buying it meant it never became commercially successful and they went back to normal farming of meat? Would you eat it then? To help it get going and to stop us going back to the traditional evil way of doing it? I think the moment its on the shelves all vegans world wide should be buying it for that reason! Including you! Its people like you that might shoot their cause in the foot, not having a go at you, you are a hero, just giving you a debate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  4. mikek
    Surfing

    mikek Member

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    Hi Sam,
    It's interesting.
    IMO it will probably not be massively brilliant if/when it's first launched, so i think it might well be the veggies & vegans who miss meat that get it going - commercially.
    Once the product has been refined & is a serious alternative to meat for meat-eaters, then it will flourish.

    After thinking about it, maybe i would at least try it - to show faith. (i'm lying).
    I think my daughter might go for it. Not sure about my son.
     
  5. Sam

    Sam Member

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    so u wouldnt financially support it by buying ud make it more likely for it to fail and for animals to suffer?
     
  6. poivron

    poivron Member

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    Eating meat causes all sorts of health problems, including increasing the risk of heart disease and colon cancer. Why should a vegan risk his/her health in order to help a company succeed? Instead of shaming vegans, you should be focusing on the real market for this product. That market is not the 2% or less of the population who are vegans but the 98% of the population who are meat-eaters who absolutely insist on eating meat but might consider less cruel methods of obtaining it.
     
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  7. Sam

    Sam Member

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    Wrong, eating some types and cuts of meat causes health problems, like pork chops bacon etc

    Meat like salmon, lean chicken breasts etc do not cause cancer or health problems they probably increase your health actually. Esp if they are free range etc.

    So nice try.

    So yea you could eat only the healthy versions of this synthetic meat to make it more likely to be a success and help the animals.

    Or you could be an ignorant moron and do the thing that helps hurt animals for reasons of pride rather than logic.

    Anyone smart enough to out debate me?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  8. nobody

    nobody Member

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    Sam, you don't have to eat it to support it. For example, you can invest in SuperMeat through Indiegogo. SuperMeat is the company everyone is talking about right now but they will not have cultured meat on the shelves until 2021 at the earliest, if ever, and then only chicken.

    SuperMeat: Google / Youtube

    Beyond Meat though, is on the shelves right now but not widely available and it is not cultured meat, just a convincing imitation of real meat that is 100% vegan.

    Beyond Meat: Google / Youtube

    I will try Beyond Meat as a novelty at a family get together or something when they are cooking regular hamburgers on the grill but would never even consider eating SuperMeat because meat is gross and weird. With this technology, you could actually eat yourself, by growing meat from your own cells. Or you could eat your pets without killing them by growing meat from their cells. And the only difference between doing that and eating cultured chicken will be that the people eating the cultured chicken meat will not have known the cell-donor chickens as individuals.

    However, the cultured meat that SuperMeat is proposing will be virtually animal exploitation free, with their method. They will only need to get some cells from 3 to 5 chickens, which will not hurt them, and then they can produce meat indefinitely with no further cell collection from animals necessary. So I would definitely buy it for other people to eat and encourage meat eaters to eat it rather than conventional meat. I just wouldn't consume it.
     
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  9. alleycat

    alleycat Active Member

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    No I won't eat it, only because I really have never liked the taste of any meat. If people want to eat it I have no problems with that, just something I do not want to try
     
  10. poivron

    poivron Member

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    Your claims are incorrect. Research shows that there is no amount of animal product that is healthy. Attacks and insults are not a form of argument and suggest insecurity rather than intelligence.

    https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/fish/
    https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/chicken/
    https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/10/11/what-about-eating-just-a-little-meat/
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/a-cure-for-cancer-eating_b_298282.html

    Enjoy your stay here while it lasts.
     
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  11. Sam

    Sam Member

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    Research shows lots of things on either side of the fence , none of its conclusive you can use research to draw faulty conclusions on both sides of the argument. Some will say its bad for you some will say its good. Its all inconclusive.

    Even if you were right, it would be grasping at straws, and a poor reason to use to persuade people not to eat meat, because eating a small amount of meat or what most nutritional experts and scientists regard as healthy meat is not going to reduce your life span by much at all compared with a vegan only diet.

    The people that live the longest out of everyone tend to be meat eaters but of the healthy variety of meat. Not vegans or vegetarians. Time and time again the evidence show people that eat a balanced diet, lean meats good fats, lots of fruit and vegetables etc live the longest.

    But again its a bit inconclusive since there are not many vegans around to make a fair comparison. But none the less it shows the difference in life span is almost INSIGNIFICANT if you go vegan when compared with a healthy balanced diet!

    So if you wish to help animals, you could at least use information that is true, not information that might be true but might not, then write as if it were true. Lying undermines our cause, invalidates all our arguments whether they are right or wrong.

    Also you could at least give people a persuasive reason to not eat meat, I mean telling someone they will live 1 - 3 years longer if they give up all the food they love so much is not a very persuasive idea, and again its based on no solid evidence in the 1st place.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  12. Forest Nymph
    Jaded

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    I wouldn't eat it because I don't want to eat flesh. It's like you asking me if I think it's a bit stupid to not eat cloned humans or abortions.
     
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  13. Sam

    Sam Member

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    Keep you cat locked in the garden or it will get run over like the last 1 b4 that? If yes, it was your fault he/she died on the road!

    Well I understand your point of view if you are grossed out by it you cant eat it, would you support the cause financially though?

    I think there could be a big tipping point where if the companies dont make enough money fast enough it will either catch on or not in various countries and if not enough money is made millions of animals will continue to face the slaughter in huge numbers for hundreds of years. I think synthetic meat could be one of the most important tipping point in animal welfare history, and its either gonna make it like DVD's or fade out fast like mini cassettes
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  14. poivron

    poivron Member

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    Please provide references for your assertions -- references that show that those who live the longest are people who eat "healthy meat" (a phrase certainly coined by the meat industry), and that the difference in life span is "almost insignificant".

    Unlike you, I have backed every statement with links that provide further details -- links you seem not to have looked at. Two of them directly contradict your assertion that "eating a small amount of meat ... is not going to reduce your life span by much at all". The problem with meat, which is intrinsic to meat regardless of whether it comes from an animal or from a lab, is its protein content. An excessive intake of protein not only causes kidney and liver disease but also feeds the growth of cancer cells. See:
    https://nutritionfacts.org/2013/02/14/animal-protein-and-igf-1/

    You have also conveniently ignored my point that instead of trying to shame vegans into eating lab-grown meat, you should be working on convincing 98% of the population that already eats meat to eat lab-grown meat. That, after all, is the population that is targeted by the lab-grown meat industry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  15. nobody

    nobody Member

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    That is inconceivable because eventually it will be much more cost effective than traditional animal agriculture from a production standpoint and safer as far as the elimination of e. coli, salmonella etc. risks which will result in lower insurance premiums for everyone involved in the supply chain. Two of the largest meat producers, Cargill (beef) and Tyson (chicken) have invested in clean meat (cultured meat) startup Memphis Meats and when it gets rolling they will market it heavily to convince consumers they want to eat it because it will generate larger profits than they are currently getting, which is all they care about at the end of the day.

    The main reason that vegans shouldn’t eat it, and this is also the reason why vegans shouldn’t go dumpster diving for meat and eat it, or eat meat that will otherwise go to waste at relatives' houses etc, is that there are certain addictive stimulants in muscle tissue (but not organ meats apparently), hypoxanthine, inosinic acid and guanylic acid, and their presence is the reason it is so hard for people to give up meat. And they are the reason that people feel that something is wrong after giving up meat, even though they are getting all the protein and other nutrients they need from plant sources. If a vegan takes even a bite of muscle meat, they reactivate the neural pathways responsible for meat addiction and they will begin craving it again, just like a a former smoker who takes a few puffs of a cigarette after years of not smoking and not craving nicotine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  16. Forest Nymph
    Jaded

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    That's like suggesting that anal porn is going to be the greatest advancement we have had in preventing male on female rape.

    Sam, I kind of get the impression that you're 18 or 19 years old and clever or ambitious, that your heart is in the right place, but your posts are such a clusterfuck of irrational stupidity in terms of ethical vegan philosophy I have a hard time taking you seriously.

    No, eating baby's arms instead of donkey's butts won't make me a more empathetic person less likely to abuse animals because it's missing the train entirely - it's sort of like taking speed instead of getting needed sleep, it's a band-aid solution meant to appeal to people who want easy outs in capitalist society, but no it won't address the core issue.
     
  17. Forest Nymph
    Jaded

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Sam, I think you should research "malignant narcissism."
     
  18. Forest Nymph
    Jaded

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    If Sam isn't constantly posting ****-faced drunk I'm pretty sure we should just start ignoring him, that's the feeling I'm getting.
     
  19. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member

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    No, I would not. For some of the following reasons:

    1. Still contains cholesterol. Presumably it's going to have some saturated fat as well if it's marketed to the general public. These are not health contributors and while not everything I consume is healthy, they don't give me any kind of pleasure and it's all downside...

    2. Since it's being grown in a lab and not fed, are the vitamins going to be synthetic or strictly from yeast? How about the minerals, are they going to fortify the meat with minerals by some (person or person's) agenda? Or are they going to be typical of what's in animal foods?

    3. If they can engineer/grow meat, they can add whatever the heck they want to it, just as companies do to their special brands of OJ or other products they mess with to make people addicted to them. No thanks.

    4. This should be linked with #1 - it will still encourage the Bacteroides bacteria in the gut, as opposed to the Prevotella. I like my fiber munching natural bacteria much better well fed, not competing with Bacteroides and having to feed on intestinal lining to stop from being starved...

    5. I don't even eat Quorn products because to me it's both unnecessary to get that much protein and I don't trust eating too much of something that is grown from yeast. Ok, so I eat Vegemite, and maybe some nutritional yeast flakes now and again but both these are byproducts of beer making and they haven't been chemically altered to grow some weird fungus protein.

    6. Last but not least, lab grown meat isn't something I can grow myself, nor desire to. I don't fancy being a slave to a few companies who can charge me anything they like for their "meat" products just as I don't fancy being a slave to the status quo that grows animals for meat that I don't.

    Fruits, veggies, legumes and whole grains are kind. Provided they haven't been genetically modified, heat treated or crushed, I can grow many of them in my yard and even some in my residence. The ones I don't I can get from farmer's markets of people who do that or are just selling what they won't consume themselves.
     
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  20. TheBlazingVegan

    TheBlazingVegan New Member

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