Gary Francione vs. Wayne Hsiung

[JacobEdward]

http://www.goveganradio.com/shows/go-vegan-radio-615.mp3
video is shorter I believe

Would love to discuss the debate with anybody here...

Gary makes lots of arguments about how targeting animal agriculture economically (like trying to increase welfare standards so eggs aren't so cheap) will never work... I agree with him but thats more because of what I believe is the nature of the economy (and nobody seemed interested in discussing that)...

Logically it would seem that the best you could want is for a reading/writing discussion instead of some emotional, in your face type of disruption where things are moving too quickly for people to process properly... but then empirical evidence would suggest thats going to take a long time...

 

[Lou]

Sound interesting.
If I can figure out how to download and listen to it on my iPhone I will check it out on my next long walk.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

One important point Gary makes is fund raising involves compromises with animal abusers.

It is clear funds for rallies speeches demos gets the public attention so pushes thinking about animal issues.

Many people will start to investigate issues and go vegan.

It is however problematic dxe do not state veganism is the ultimate only end goal.

 

[JacobEdward]

Sound interesting.
If I can figure out how to download and listen to it on my iPhone I will check it out on my next long walk.

here's the mp3 on bobs site http://www.goveganradio.com/shows/go-vegan-radio-615.mp3
otherwise I use the youtube to mp3 site

 

[JacobEdward]

One important point Gary makes is fund raising involves compromises with animal abusers.

It is clear funds for rallies speeches demos gets the public attention so pushes thinking about animal issues.

Many people will start to investigate issues and go vegan.

It is however problematic dxe do not state veganism is the ultimate only end goal.

I totally agree the not having "Go Vegan" up front and center with DxE is a HUGE problem...

In terms of fundraising... it really wouldn't take that much money to get Vegan activist units going if they were smarter with how they're spending it...

 

[Lou]

here's the mp3 on bobs site http://www.goveganradio.com/shows/go-vegan-radio-615.mp3
otherwise I use the youtube to mp3 site

OK, thanks.

 

[JacobEdward]

I believe I suggested the 2 minute playlist response debate video session thing to Gary and he gave some neutral thing in the moment and sorta didn't respond... Email discussion like what we're doing right now is really what they should have done and then just voice act the thing for the show

 

[Vegan Dogs]

What Wayne of dxe saw after failing his law career was opportunity to be high profile twisting easy to sell wins by dramas avoiding the core message to save all animals of go vegan.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

One thing Gary has said in the past but missed saying here was all these alleged improvements in welfare are nonsense the eg I give is space for caged hens...the DEFRA or general world standard is 19 chickens adult size to 1m2

It is not possible to have more without damaging economic losses of life before slaughter

 

[Vegan Dogs]

The worst aspect of dxe actions is to talk about good farmers. Farmers who kill and abuse animals are not good farmers so dxe supports animal abuse. Period.

 

[JacobEdward]

What Wayne of dxe saw after failing his law career was opportunity to be high profile twisting easy to sell wins by dramas avoiding the core message to save all animals of go vegan.

high profile people are always welcome in the vegan movement, its like one of those things that is sorta limited by those who can actually do that instead of it being this thing where people get muscled out of doing it... I do agree that he is a bit Machiavelli but they all are if they're not honest about a few things so idk...

 

[JacobEdward]

The worst aspect of dxe actions is to talk about good farmers. Farmers who kill and abuse animals are not good farmers so dxe supports animal abuse. Period.

thats the Machiavelli thing I was saying... of course he is getting people to go vegan, if we disagree on strategy to say we should always be as honest as possible (which I do) and that we should never try to get people to feel comfortable when consuming any animal products, including welfare products (which I do) then of course there's stuff we need to argue about but it's like being in a minority within a minority... Gotta be honest about the fact that most vegans are not abolitionist... Even PETA has the bell and evans chicken thing

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