Genocide in Syria

[Second Summer]

I note that the civilian death toll is now in the order of tens of thousands (24,500 according to one source). It seems pretty clear that a genocide is taking place. Sure, civilians are killed accidentally in war, but that's a big number, and reports from inside the country seem to support the suspicion.

The UN security council is in a sad state when it's unable or unwilling to take effective action in a situation like this. Is the problem that the nations in the security council don't trust each other? Given that the different world powers (who are represented in the security council) naturally have competing interests, is it ever possible for them to trust each other?

 

[mlp]

The problem is that five of the members of the Security Council have veto power, which is why it's a pretty toothless organization.

 

[Second Summer]

The problem is that five of the members of the Security Council have veto power, which is why it's a pretty toothless organization.

Yes. But if they were in agreement, or were willing to work out a workable compromise, that wouldn't be a problem.

 

[rainforests1]

The rebels decided to protest after other countries were doing the same. They have a good idea of what their government is capable of, so I don't see how they're blameless in this. If there's one country the West should help, it would be Mexico. At least there the West has some responsibility for what's going on, and the deaths is much higher(more than 50,000).

 

[mlp]

The rebels decided to protest after other countries were doing the same. They have a good idea of what their government is capable of, so I don't see how they're blameless in this. If there's one country the West should help, it would be Mexico. At least there the West has some responsibility for what's going on, and the deaths is much higher(more than 50,000).

Jesus H. Christ. I guess the slaves who tried to escape from the South also knew what their owners and the government were capable of, so they weren't blameless either.

 

[Envy]

There's no way you can't be unaware of the consequences though .

 

[mlp]

There's no way you can't be unaware of the consequences though .

Being aware of the consequences is different than not being blameless.

The kind of thinking that says that people who try to do right, try for freedom, even knowing what consequences may befall them, are not "blameless" in what happens to them, are not deserving of help, is what allows evil to persist and triumph.

Congratulations. You and Mr. Rainforests would have made good little Germans for Hitler.

 

[Envy]

Being aware of the consequences is different than not being blameless.

The kind of thinking that says that people who try to do right, try for freedom, even knowing what consequences may befall them, are not "blameless" in what happens to them, are not deserving of help, is what allows evil to persist and triumph.

Congratulations. You and Mr. Rainforests would have made good little Germans for Hitler.

I didn't say that I agreed with Rainbowman.

 

[led.boots]

I don't think the UN can really do anything about all the genocide going on in the world, unfortunately.

 

[rainforests1]

Congratulations. You and Mr. Rainforests would have made good little Germans for Hitler.

I never know whether you're being serious or not when you make comments like these. My understanding is the rebels started protesting, and that caused everything that happened afterwards. I'm still confused as to what they were protesting though. Protesting for the fun of it, or was there a logical reason behind it?

 

[yakherder]

True, every action comes with consequence. So does inaction. I personally am not a fan of cowardice disguised as pacifism. Yeah, they might die for getting up and standing their ground. That's largely why they felt the need to do it.

 

[yakherder]

And in this case, as with many others, the politics surrounding the decision as to what, if anything, we should do, are clouded by a pissing contest between a bunch of superpowers whose main interest is in making sure the dust settles in their favor. I am not criticizing this fact, by the way, it is what it is. Most of us play this game on a much smaller scale regularly in our daily lives.

 

[K-II]

Unless there is some detail left out here, I don't think genocide is really applicable.

As for the UN, it seems we're not really at the point yet where intervening in these situations is cheap enough and safe enough that any nation would do so just to save the people involved. Though naturally it makes a nice excuse when doing so is in their interest for whatever reason, like the outgoing leadership was on bad terms with them.

 

[cornsail]

The rebels decided to protest after other countries were doing the same.

They decided to protest/fight-back in response to atrocities carried out by the Syrian government. It wasn't like "people in other countries are protesting so let's do it too for no reason!"

They have a good idea of what their government is capable of, so I don't see how they're blameless in this.

I don't see how anyone other than the ones supporting, ordering or carrying out the killing are to blame for the killings.

Unless there is some detail left out here, I don't think genocide is really applicable.

Agreed.

 

[cornsail]

BTW, if the US gov. wanted to intervene they would. They don't really care much about the UN as history clearly shows.

 

[rainforests1]

They decided to protest/fight-back in response to atrocities carried out by the Syrian government. It wasn't like "people in other countries are protesting so let's do it too for no reason!"

What were these atrocities they carried out? I thought the government has been doing atrocities for many years now. My understanding is grain prices went up a lot shortly before this started. It could be just a case of people getting frustrated and taking their frustration out on their government.

 

[mlp]

What were these atrocities they carried out? I thought the government has been doing atrocities for many years now. My understanding is grain prices went up a lot shortly before this started. It could be just a case of people getting frustrated and taking their frustration out on their government.

Do you ever even notice the internal inconsistencies in your posts?

 

[cornsail]

What were these atrocities they carried out?

Unwarranted executions, imprisonment of government critics/human rights activists, torture of government critics/human rights activists (before the protests). Open firing into crowds of demonstrators and escalated torture/imprisonment of critics (after the protests started). Also censorship and privacy violations (e.g. requiring that internet cafes monitor peoples activity and keep a record of anything they post on forums, etc.).

I thought the government has been doing atrocities for many years now. My understanding is grain prices went up a lot shortly before this started. It could be just a case of people getting frustrated and taking their frustration out on their government.

If you think the government has been carrying out atrocities for many years now then why are you asking what they were and speculating that the protests may have just been frustration over grain prices?

 

[rainforests1]

I know there have been atrocities carried out by their government, in the past but I'm not familiar with any atrocities the Syrian government had carried out shortly before the protesting. No inconsistencies at all.

 

[Freesia]

From what I understand, the Syrian conflict is a Sunni/Shiite/Christian conflict. The government is Shiite (10% of population) and they are supported by the Shiites and the Christians (also 10%) sect but not the Sunni (80%). So it is an evil dictatorship, with corrupt mass murderers, though Shiites have ruled since the Europeans drew up maps of the Middle East last century.

But the Sunni would like them gone so there is conflict between them and Shiite/The Goverment and Christians are supporting the Shiites, because they believe things would be a lot worse for them under a Sunni government, which are not generally very Christian friendly, and may introduce Sharia Law.

And further complicating the situation is the goings on in the rest of the Muslim world and Middle East including Israel, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. So it is basically a huge mess, a sort of 3 way civil war.