High fibre side-effects of plant-based

[johnnyivan]

Hi all,
Warning, unpleasant subject:

Since going plant-based 2 months ago, I certainly don't have any lack of fibre. This is made inconveniently apparent to me in the mornings. Several bathroom visits! This is all very good perhaps but I'd worry about resuming work commutes and being caught short.

I cut out bran from my porridge but it hasn't helped.

Also, it seems to me that if I eat Quorn mince it gets even worse.

Anyone else experience this? Does my body just nee to adjust? Should I reintroduce crappy stodgy white bread, white rice, or something?

Thanks, if you read this far!
John

 

[Veganite]

If you're a new vegan, I suspect this should get better. However, I am not a medical doctor or a dietitian. Please always seek medical advice when in doubt.

I would suggest you research soluble and non-soluble fiber. Learn what foods will ease your problem and which ones contribute to it. Not all fiber is created equal.

Basically, insoluble fiber bulks up your stool and acts like a brush, sweeping through your bowels to get everything out and keep things moving. Found in wheat bran, vegetables and whole grains.

The soluble variety absorbs water and forms a gel-like substance. This helps your stool pass smoothly through your bowels and improves its form and consistency. Found in oat bran, nuts, seeds, beans, lentils and peas, as well as some fruits and vegetables.

Some medications can have a drastic effect on your GI track. Again, don't hesitate to seek out medical advice.

*

 

[johnnyivan]

If you're a new vegan, I suspect this should get better. However, I am not a medical doctor or a dietitian. Please always seek medical advice when in doubt.

I would suggest you research soluble and non-soluble fiber. Learn what foods will ease your problem and which ones contribute to it. Not all fiber is created equal.

Basically, insoluble fiber bulks up your stool and acts like a brush, sweeping through your bowels to get everything out and keep things moving. Found in wheat bran, vegetables and whole grains.

The soluble variety absorbs water and forms a gel-like substance. This helps your stool pass smoothly through your bowels and improves its form and consistency. Found in oat bran, nuts, seeds, beans, lentils and peas, as well as some fruits and vegetables.

Some medications can have a drastic effect on your GI track. Again, don't hesitate to seek out medical advice.

*

Hi Veganite,
I seem to have plenty of all of those. but I'll read up on it.

I'm very suspicious of Quorn though and I have been for years.

I'm not on any medications at all.
John

 

[Emma JC]

we do not have Quorn here so I haven't ever had any - if you suspect it then I would suggest dropping it, at least for a while, as there are now so many other options out there now...

I have just had to do a week of antibiotics which, as you know, wipes out the good biome in the gut, and one of the side effects is similar to what you are experiencing.... it is getting better but it is likely to take a little while to build good enzymes back up for me and I am trying to help by eating things like sauerkraut and pickles etc. Maybe your gut is still adjusting and as @Veganite suggests seek medical advice if it continues and/or is debilitating.

Try to find a balance .... there's nothing wrong with having white pasta/rice/bread to go along with your veggies, fruits, etc, especially until you stabilize.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[johnnyivan]

That's a good point about antibiotcs Emma.
I was on them recently and I'm not consuming dairy anymore—including yoghurts. Maybe I'll buy some sauerkraut, some good gut bacteria tablets, and start making my own sauerkraut again.

Thanks!
John

 

[Lou]

I'm very suspicious of probiotics.
Yes I know this is opposite of thousands of years of humans experience with cultured foods.
This is the foundation of my reasoning.
Accordoding to reseachers, our gut biome is made up of billions (and billions) of different bacteria. And hundreds (maybe thousands) of different species. this biome is as complex as any rainforest. And there are all kinds of interrelations. some cooperate, some compete and some actually eat some others.
If you look at any cultured product or probiotic, mostly is just one species. And even the higher priced supplements are just ten or maybe 20.
Kind of like going into a forest and planting a few trees.

I am very much in favor of prebiotics. that is the food that the bacteria eat. More like watering and fertilizing.

You might know this but most people are pretty deficient on fiber. A good target value is something like 30 g. Most people get maybe half that. WFPB vegans commonly get way more.

Now the thing about fiber (both kinds) is that it slows the digestion process. both the digestion and the absorption. So if you are getting enough fiber you shouldn't have very many BMs a day. People with low fiber diets sometimes are constipated. So maybe that is why you might think you need to eat less fiber. But that probably won't help. In fact, it sounds like you need to slow down your system a little bit more and that is what fiber is good for.

Oh! do you know your fiber intake. My average is in the high 20s.

The other thing is not just medications but supplements can affect your stools as well. especially the minerals.
It does get sort of complicated pretty fast.

BTW, have you been exposed to the Bristol Stool Chart?

What Kind of Poop Do I Have?

The Bristol stool scale is a diagnostic tool used by doctors to assess various digestive issues based on the type and shape of poop.

www.webmd.com

 

[silva]

Highly recommend listening to Dr Gregers gut biome series of videos:

How to Develop a Healthy Gut Ecosystem | NutritionFacts.org

What we eat determines what kind of bacteria we foster the growth of in our gut, which can increase or decrease our risk of some of our leading killer diseases.

nutritionfacts.org

It does take time for your body to adjust, you may need to cut back and slowly increase

 

[johnnyivan]

I'm very suspicious of probiotics.
Yes I know this is opposite of thousands of years of humans experience with cultured foods.
This is the foundation of my reasoning.
Accordoding to reseachers, our gut biome is made up of billions (and billions) of different bacteria. And hundreds (maybe thousands) of different species. this biome is as complex as any rainforest. And there are all kinds of interrelations. some cooperate, some compete and some actually eat some others.
If you look at any cultured product or probiotic, mostly is just one species. And even the higher priced supplements are just ten or maybe 20.
Kind of like going into a forest and planting a few trees.

I am very much in favor of prebiotics. that is the food that the bacteria eat. More like watering and fertilizing.

You might know this but most people are pretty deficient on fiber. A good target value is something like 30 g. Most people get maybe half that. WFPB vegans commonly get way more.

Now the thing about fiber (both kinds) is that it slows the digestion process. both the digestion and the absorption. So if you are getting enough fiber you shouldn't have very many BMs a day. People with low fiber diets sometimes are constipated. So maybe that is why you might think you need to eat less fiber. But that probably won't help. In fact, it sounds like you need to slow down your system a little bit more and that is what fiber is good for.

Oh! do you know your fiber intake. My average is in the high 20s.

The other thing is not just medications but supplements can affect your stools as well. especially the minerals.
It does get sort of complicated pretty fast.

BTW, have you been exposed to the Bristol Stool Chart?

What Kind of Poop Do I Have?

The Bristol stool scale is a diagnostic tool used by doctors to assess various digestive issues based on the type and shape of poop.

www.webmd.com

12 years ago I used to think the whole Probiotics thing was a made up load of marketing exec nonsense. "Includes A-Tummyterrificans." Even 'Probiotics' sounds like made up marketing speak. Until a gastric surgeon said he had an actimel drink every day and that if your healthy gut bacteria get low, nasty bugs liek C-Dificile can get out of control and be dangerous.

Same problem again this morning. Runny. It could be from my daily leafy salad lunch which always has spinach leaves in it. Cooked Spinach definitely loosens things up.

Checked out that Bristol Stool chart. I vary between them.

What a delightful conversation we're having...

 

[johnnyivan]

Highly recommend listening to Dr Gregers gut biome series of videos:

How to Develop a Healthy Gut Ecosystem | NutritionFacts.org

What we eat determines what kind of bacteria we foster the growth of in our gut, which can increase or decrease our risk of some of our leading killer diseases.

nutritionfacts.org

It does take time for your body to adjust, you may need to cut back and slowly increase

I'll watch this now, Silva. Thanks.

 

[johnnyivan]

Highly recommend listening to Dr Gregers gut biome series of videos:

How to Develop a Healthy Gut Ecosystem | NutritionFacts.org

What we eat determines what kind of bacteria we foster the growth of in our gut, which can increase or decrease our risk of some of our leading killer diseases.

nutritionfacts.org

It does take time for your body to adjust, you may need to cut back and slowly increase

Those are fascinating.

 

[Veganite]

What a delightful conversation we're having...

Yeah, but it's still something many people face. The problem is real for many people. I've had similar issues in the past, so I can relate.

*

 

[johnnyivan]

I bought a 7 day course of (post antibiotic) probiotics, with 21 million different cultures in it.

I've also put bran back into my porridge to see what happens.

The other thing I lately put in my porridge is flax seeds. Hmmm...

I guess it'll be a process of elimination

 

[Lou]

I bought a 7 day course of (post antibiotic) probiotics, with 21 million different cultures in it.

I doubt it had 21 million different cultures in it. It probably had 21 million individual bacteria. Probably had less than 10 strains (species) of bacteria.

(21 million may sound like a lot but your gut has 500 trillion bacteria - that is millions times more. Ten strains or 20 - could be good - If we had any idea which ones we should supplement. Our guts hold hundreds of strains.)

Another reason I am suspicious of probiotic claims is that there is so little research on it. and what research does exist has mostly ambiguous conclusions.

Experimention via elimination dose sound like a good idea but it could be time consuming.

In the meantime I suggest doing a bit more analysis. Have you used Cronometer? it does a lot of the research, calculating, and recording for you. I suggest start using it with an eye on fiber. The target in Cronometer is 30 g. But to start off with I would suggest a lower target. and see how your gut responds. Then gradually start increasing fiber.

You might also look at your magnesium intake. Magnesium can act as a stool softener.

Oh, and I am curious - before you start experimenting - What is your fiber content now?

 

[Lou]

Yeah, but it's still something many people face. The problem is real for many people. I've had similar issues in the past, so I can relate.

*

It may be sort of weird to talk about stools but they are probably the best indicator of GI health.

 

[Lou]

Highly recommend listening to Dr Gregers gut biome series of videos:

How to Develop a Healthy Gut Ecosystem | NutritionFacts.org

What we eat determines what kind of bacteria we foster the growth of in our gut, which can increase or decrease our risk of some of our leading killer diseases.

nutritionfacts.org

It does take time for your body to adjust, you may need to cut back and slowly increase

Just watched that and I was amused that in the little excerpts that flash on the screen, I spotted the word "metabolites" several times. I just started a little thread on metabolites.

 

[silva]

A few years back, at the height of the probiotic rage, I got some for my son who had digestive problems. He wouldn't take them, so I figured why not try them myself? I didn't have any problems, but the news made it sound like they were good for everyone!
They gave me every problem they were supposed to fix for people! I got diarreaha,cramps, everything! When I stopped I quickly recovered
Meat diets are a very different biome then plant based diets, so maybe I got some meat eater bacterias? I don't know, but very very unpleasent!

Dr Gregers book How Not to Diet is a fascinating read, all about what, why,when, how ...... our diets and digestion work, for today and historically,as well as the difference in cultures

 

[johnnyivan]

A few years back, at the height of the probiotic rage, I got some for my son who had digestive problems. He wouldn't take them, so I figured why not try them myself? I didn't have any problems, but the news made it sound like they were good for everyone!
They gave me every problem they were supposed to fix for people! I got diarreaha,cramps, everything! When I stopped I quickly recovered
Meat diets are a very different biome then plant based diets, so maybe I got some meat eater bacterias? I don't know, but very very unpleasent!

Dr Gregers book How Not to Diet is a fascinating read, all about what, why,when, how ...... our diets and digestion work, for today and historically,as well as the difference in cultures

That's a good point about them perhaps containing meat digesting bacteria. I waw astonished watching one of his videos, about how eatig meat regularly places these bacteria in your gut—and they produce these harmful TMAO substances that can contribute to heart disease, strokes etc.

 

[Lou]

A little more on Poop.

Vegan Poop Habits: Experts Tell Us What's Normal | Well+Good

We talked to experts about all of the ways your vegan poop habits might change when you switch to a plant-based diet.

www.wellandgood.com

 

[Peace and happiness]

I had to figure out foods that were too much for me to handle. I stopped eating raw red cabbage in my salad every day, and only use beans as a garnish. I think if you experiment by reducing or eliminating some of the raw fruits and veggies that you suspect are causing the most problems, you can find what works for you.