Accepting Carnist Friends?

awuirf

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I can't live with so much hate/resentment/negative feelings that simmer within me when I deal with carnist people, even friends. I can't help but judge them (emotions of dispeace, dissonance to be precise). It is second nature. I seem unable to look beyond such strong emotions. But these strong emotions are incredibly draining. The world seems to get on without giving two hoots about my inner turmoil, and I am just worse off.

Furthermore, these carnist friends, simply won't change their dietary behaviour. They cite absurd reasons -- such as they want to eat meat to get along with their friends, their family -- and so please don't tell me to help them see the light, or guide them to watch documentaries when they are clearly not interested. I absolutely -- respectfully speaking -- don't want to hear that bit of advice, because these friends of mine simply won't change.

So, now, I would like to know how to become more accepting of these people? How do I live in the real world? Any objective strategies to become more tolerant?
It's like I desire complete resonance with my closest friends, but this carnist-vegan issue really comes in the way, and keeps pricking my subconscious.

I just want to live my life man, without being accused of being a part of some cult, or feeling as if I am a horrible person to judge others. It's so exhausting, it often takes hours of my days.

I have always been vegetarian/vegan since birth. Born in a vegetarian home, and then transitioned.

Please help!
 
I am not going to be judgey... I am just going to be straight with you.

Your emotions are under your control and if you give them away to others then you feel powerless.

You have no control over anyone else's behaviour, only your own.

Example: there are current polititians in this world that are doing and saying dastardly things - I do feel upset when I follow the news however I can't let it make me hate or internalize their hatred and pass it on.

Same with veganism - "there but for the grace of ...." I am so so thankful to be vegan now for all the reasons, my health, the animals and the environment and yet, for me, I choose to still love my friends and family and everyone else as I was there until 9 years ago. When you give compassion, you get back compassion. When you give love, you get love. When you give understanding, you get understanding. If you give anger and displeasure and judgement of others then you will get all of those back in return.

There are some vegans, awesome vegans, who are also activists and that is admirable and maybe you would feel better if you found a group to be a part of that was like this? Otherwise you must first love yourself enough that you don't torture yourself over something that you have no control over. Live by example and take joy in what you eat and the good you are doing for the animals and for the environment.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
 
I am not going to be judgey... I am just going to be straight with you.

Your emotions are under your control and if you give them away to others then you feel powerless.

You have no control over anyone else's behaviour, only your own.

Example: there are current polititians in this world that are doing and saying dastardly things - I do feel upset when I follow the news however I can't let it make me hate or internalize their hatred and pass it on.

Same with veganism - "there but for the grace of ...." I am so so thankful to be vegan now for all the reasons, my health, the animals and the environment and yet, for me, I choose to still love my friends and family and everyone else as I was there until 9 years ago. When you give compassion, you get back compassion. When you give love, you get love. When you give understanding, you get understanding. If you give anger and displeasure and judgement of others then you will get all of those back in return.

There are some vegans, awesome vegans, who are also activists and that is admirable and maybe you would feel better if you found a group to be a part of that was like this? Otherwise you must first love yourself enough that you don't torture yourself over something that you have no control over. Live by example and take joy in what you eat and the good you are doing for the animals and for the environment.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
You win the internet today. 🥰😍🥰😍🥰
 
I can't live with so much hate/resentment/negative feelings that simmer within me when I deal with carnist people, even friends. I can't help but judge them (emotions of dispeace, dissonance to be precise). It is second nature. I seem unable to look beyond such strong emotions. But these strong emotions are incredibly draining. The world seems to get on without giving two hoots about my inner turmoil, and I am just worse off.

Furthermore, these carnist friends, simply won't change their dietary behaviour. They cite absurd reasons -- such as they want to eat meat to get along with their friends, their family -- and so please don't tell me to help them see the light, or guide them to watch documentaries when they are clearly not interested. I absolutely -- respectfully speaking -- don't want to hear that bit of advice, because these friends of mine simply won't change.

So, now, I would like to know how to become more accepting of these people? How do I live in the real world? Any objective strategies to become more tolerant?
It's like I desire complete resonance with my closest friends, but this carnist-vegan issue really comes in the way, and keeps pricking my subconscious.

I just want to live my life man, without being accused of being a part of some cult, or feeling as if I am a horrible person to judge others. It's so exhausting, it often takes hours of my days.

I have always been vegetarian/vegan since birth. Born in a vegetarian home, and then transitioned.

Please help!
Simple. Remember your non-vegan self from the past. Remember how you felt and thought. Your friends are no different to that.
 
Simple. Remember your non-vegan self from the past. Remember how you felt and thought. Your friends are no different to that.
That's the problem. I can't. I just can't. It's been 10 years now with this arguments and debates. I just can't use your excuse to convince myself.

Any other piece of advice?
 
I am not going to be judgey... I am just going to be straight with you.

Your emotions are under your control and if you give them away to others then you feel powerless.

You have no control over anyone else's behaviour, only your own.

Example: there are current polititians in this world that are doing and saying dastardly things - I do feel upset when I follow the news however I can't let it make me hate or internalize their hatred and pass it on.

Same with veganism - "there but for the grace of ...." I am so so thankful to be vegan now for all the reasons, my health, the animals and the environment and yet, for me, I choose to still love my friends and family and everyone else as I was there until 9 years ago. When you give compassion, you get back compassion. When you give love, you get love. When you give understanding, you get understanding. If you give anger and displeasure and judgement of others then you will get all of those back in return.

There are some vegans, awesome vegans, who are also activists and that is admirable and maybe you would feel better if you found a group to be a part of that was like this? Otherwise you must first love yourself enough that you don't torture yourself over something that you have no control over. Live by example and take joy in what you eat and the good you are doing for the animals and for the environment.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Thank you for your reply. But I just can't forgive them. So please tell me some other way to live. It causes me great dissonance when I am around them. Images keep flashing. No matter whether they are eating meat in front of me or not. Furthermore, the argument that "I was not vegan before, therefore I should forgive them "-- too is not convincing to me, as they don't want to listen to me -- the debates and arguments have raged on for years.

Then what? I can't just overlook something that is such a strongly held core value. HOW should I interact with such friends? Is it a healthy way to live if I am keep them all at a distance, and still be friends. Distance being defined as not really opening up myself to them because I don't really feel very attached to them? Is that okay? I would help anyone, nonetheless, if they need it. It's just that I don't want to make an effort in keeping friendships going by checking in on them, etc.

Please help me in telling me how I should be going about doing what I should do. Telling me what I should do is of little consequence, because I already know what I should do.
 
Ask a seemingly difficult question and then wave away every piece of advice given. In Transactional analysis, we call that a game of "Why don't you...", "Yes but..." On the internet we call it trolling. You won't engage in any other conversation on this forum, you will just obsess with this until everybody gives up, exasperated. I'm out; I won't waste my time and effort on you.
 
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That's the problem. I can't. I just can't. It's been 10 years now with this arguments and debates. I just can't use your excuse to convince myself.

Any other piece of advice?

I'm a "book person" so I always find my answers in books.
Fortunately I know of one the seems to address your issues.

It is not apparent from the title but I feel this book is the best one for addressing your issues.

Beyond Beliefs, by Melanie Joy
BTW, Dr. Joy is a Psychologist.

Some of the book's blurbs

“Beyond Beliefs will show you how to significantly reduce conflict and increase connection in all your relationships―with your partner, family, friends, colleagues, and even acquaintances. I can’t think of a single vegan, vegetarian, or meat eater who wouldn’t benefit tremendously from this book!” ―Michael Greger, MD, author of How Not to Dieand founder of NutritionFacts.org​
“This book can help people with any food beliefs significantly improve their relationships and communication. And if you’re vegan (or vegetarian), this book will also help you better understand yourself and be a much more effective ambassador for the cause.” ―Colleen Patrick-Goudreau, author of The 30-Day Vegan Challenge and other books​
“Melanie Joy is fundamentally shifting the way we view our relationship with others and ourselves, making the world a better and more compassionate place in the process.” ―Nathan Runkle, Founder of Mercy For Animals

“In this insightful and engaging book, Melanie Joy offers wisdom, comfort, and advice for any vegan or vegetarian who’s ever felt misunderstood by meat eaters and for any meat eater who’s ever felt confounded by vegans or vegetarians. This book can show you the way beyond your beliefs, so you can relate and communicate with clarity and compassion. I highly recommend it!” ―Lisa Bloom, civil rights attorney at The Bloom Firm

“Melanie Joy does a brilliant job of showing us how to negotiate veg/non-veg relationships and ultimately make them stronger.” ―Dan Buettner, National Geographic Fellow and author of The Blue Zones​
“I love this book. As a vegan married to a non-vegan, I found Melanie Joy’s advice on how to maintain a loving relationship regardless of people’s differences to be fantastic. I recommend this book to anyone seeking deeper, more connected relationships.” ―Alexandra Paul, actress and health coach​

-----

Joy is famous for the book, Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs and Wear Cows.

Another book worth your consideration. Besides being easy to read it's only 150 pages, not counting the end material. It's also pretty inexpensive - only $10 for the paperback version.

If you don't like to read, Dr. Joy has a number of online resources. An hour long Ted Talk. Plus a whole bunch of short videos on YouTube.

 
Thank you for your reply. But I just can't forgive them. So please tell me some other way to live. It causes me great dissonance when I am around them. Images keep flashing. No matter whether they are eating meat in front of me or not. Furthermore, the argument that "I was not vegan before, therefore I should forgive them "-- too is not convincing to me, as they don't want to listen to me -- the debates and arguments have raged on for years.

Then what? I can't just overlook something that is such a strongly held core value. HOW should I interact with such friends? Is it a healthy way to live if I am keep them all at a distance, and still be friends. Distance being defined as not really opening up myself to them because I don't really feel very attached to them? Is that okay? I would help anyone, nonetheless, if they need it. It's just that I don't want to make an effort in keeping friendships going by checking in on them, etc.

Please help me in telling me how I should be going about doing what I should do. Telling me what I should do is of little consequence, because I already know what I should d
o.
I didn't get the idea that your friends are judging you, or trying to change your decisions.
Your friends have already told you what to do--not judge them.
If the judgement is one sided, you need to either appreciate your friends for who they are, and how they contribute to your life, or give them up.
Would your life be better without them, or better if you all came to an agreement. Could you simply avoid get togethers that revolved around food, maybe hosting one with plant foods everyone could enjoy?
I'd be a nut case if I let peoples bad decisions get to me, especially in the US now!
 
Ask a seemingly difficult question and then wave away every piece of advice given. In Transactional analysis, we call that a game of "Why don't you...", "Yes but..." On the internet we call it trolling. You won't engage in any other conversation on this forum, you will just obsess with this until everybody gives up, exasperated. I'm out; I won't waste my time and effort on you.
Don't be so judgemental Brian. The guy is after help, not some holier than thou BS.
 
Thank you for your reply. But I just can't forgive them. So please tell me some other way to live. It causes me great dissonance when I am around them. Images keep flashing. No matter whether they are eating meat in front of me or not. Furthermore, the argument that "I was not vegan before, therefore I should forgive them "-- too is not convincing to me, as they don't want to listen to me -- the debates and arguments have raged on for years.

Then what? I can't just overlook something that is such a strongly held core value. HOW should I interact with such friends? Is it a healthy way to live if I am keep them all at a distance, and still be friends. Distance being defined as not really opening up myself to them because I don't really feel very attached to them? Is that okay? I would help anyone, nonetheless, if they need it. It's just that I don't want to make an effort in keeping friendships going by checking in on them, etc.

Please help me in telling me how I should be going about doing what I should do. Telling me what I should do is of little consequence, because I already know what I should do.
I'm afraid from looking at your responses, then it seems you may need to speak to an expert. i.e. A councilor / therapist. I'm not sure how easy that will be there in India, but you are suffering vystopia. I've had the same thing.

 
How did you make your peace? Any tips? Strategies? Are you still deep friends with non-vegans?
I am the only vegan I know in real life.
My partner and kids are not vegan.
So, sure. I am friends with non-vegans. If I wasn't I would go mad.
But for me it's easier in one way... I wasn't vegan in 2021. And I loved my meat. At time the idea of going vegan would have been insane. So I can just equate non-vegans attitudes now, to mine back then...

You have to detach people from their actions. There is nothing unusual, legally wrong or unnatural in eating meat and wearing leather. You and I have made the realisation that it is not necessary and therefore morally wrong.
They haven't...yet.
I basically had to allow a part of myself become almost fatalistic about life. Nobody will care about us, or those around us in 100 years as we will be gone forever, non-existent except for memories in those left behind.
Life and death goes on. Holding on to negative feelings helps no-one.

I've had my say. People know how I feel. If I push any further, then I will push them away...and for what? It won't help me, and it won't help them.
I'd end up bitter and lonely.

We all have to come to our own conclusions.

If you are young, you can perhaps make new, vegan friends, and spend more time around them. I am too old for that now and family is family...
 
I am the only vegan I know in real life.
My partner and kids are not vegan.
So, sure. I am friends with non-vegans. If I wasn't I would go mad.
But for me it's easier in one way... I wasn't vegan in 2021. And I loved my meat. At time the idea of going vegan would have been insane. So I can just equate non-vegans attitudes now, to mine back then...

You have to detach people from their actions. There is nothing unusual, legally wrong or unnatural in eating meat and wearing leather. You and I have made the realisation that it is not necessary and therefore morally wrong.
They haven't...yet.
I basically had to allow a part of myself become almost fatalistic about life. Nobody will care about us, or those around us in 100 years as we will be gone forever, non-existent except for memories in those left behind.
Life and death goes on. Holding on to negative feelings helps no-one.

I've had my say. People know how I feel. If I push any further, then I will push them away...and for what? It won't help me, and it won't help them.
I'd end up bitter and lonely.

We all have to come to our own conclusions.

If you are young, you can perhaps make new, vegan friends, and spend more time around them. I am too old for that now and family is family...
So grateful for this. This is very heartening to hear. Thank you. I have found my answer.
 
I've been thinking about this thread. I didn't answer before because I'm not sure how I do it- and besides, @g0rph 's answer was everything you needed. But here goes:

I've felt strongly for animals since I was a child. I've also been lucky about how people react to my feelings about animals. With very few exceptions, they've been tolerant- and even supportive about making sure I have something to eat when we share meals. You mentioned having arguments with your friends and relatives, so maybe I've had it a LOT easier than you have. But very few of my relatives, friends, and co-workers have been vegetarian, let alone vegan.

And it's more than that.

My transition away from carnism was MUCH slower: it started when I became a pescetarian at 16 years of age- eliminating the flesh of mammals and birds from my diet, but still eating fishes and other water animals, infertile eggs, and milk products. Now I'm in my 70s. I still use leather shoes, and won't give my reason (excuse?) here on this forum because I think highly of this community. But apart from that, I think I would qualify as vegan. Still, I wish I had moved in this direction faster. And even after all this time, I don't really understand how someone could treat a cow/chicken or a cat/dog so differently... or what the term "humane slaughter" is supposed to mean (I found that language disturbing, even as a child).

Mostly, I think I've just been unable and unwilling to resolve this conflict. I love animals, and I love my relatives and friends. I don't think I could turn my back on either of them even if I tried (which I won't do). So I just live with it.
 
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There is too much suffering in this world to care about. For me to harbor resentment because animals aren't every ones focus would justify many others to condemn me for not caring enough about people!
I know so many who give sooo much of themselves to the homeless, the immigrants, the battered. I do not. I may donate money and things, but I don't give of my time, or myself.
There are many who work to provide animals with better lives and laws that also eat them. I can say they're hypocrites, but what does that achieve?
 
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