Humans have no excuse when dogs and cats thrive as vegans.

[Vegan Dogs]

I went VEGAN after my dogs did.

My dogs went vegan following my "female dog" getting stomac ulcers that medication was not clearing...vet said acidity reaction to meat/flesh causing the problem...flesh needs high acidity levels to digest it

When I realised...what a fool I had been for years to have fed my dogs meat...and how healthy they were on vet approved vegan kibble organic

I went vegan myself.

There is nothing...that living organisms need to thrive on..that is not obtainable from plants. Flesh is simply processed plants...so cut out the middle man and all the ramifications of animal agriculture.

I realised also...years ago...for decades hunting dogs peasants owned were not fed expensive meat but boiled veggies like slops for the pigs ! and they were high energy long living dogs !

thousands of healthy vegan dogs and cats out there. I did a blog page summary of links to Bramble the vegan Guinness world book of records in 2002 vegan dog who lived 25 years healthily. plus little tyke the vegetarian lioness true story. if it were unhealthy or not possible those as well as the thousands of others would not have thrived and lived so long. take a read ! http://vegan-information.com/Vegan_Dogs_and_Cats.html

 

[Vegan Dogs]

No one here seems to be aware of BRAMBLE ! astonishing. vegans unaware of the Guinness World Book of Records Book in 2002 longest lived dog then ! VEGAN ! 25 years old fed on home made veggies ! like most peasants hunting dogs have been for decades I add.

There are thousands of VEGAN CATS out there too ! and a real life case of a LIONESS called LITTLE TYKE that was FAMOUS for not eating flesh ! links and info on her in the page link provided below too.

It is a "modern" phenomenon to buy dog and catfood.

For decades and still now...hunting dogs we kept and others still keep...get fed not MEAT but boiled veggies pastas etc ! people in the country with hunting dogs do not feed their huskies laikas etc meat ! that is expensive and wasted on hunting dogs.

Super fit...fast obviously as hunting dogs need high energy

My MODERN fancy breed dogs...like my cat...were fed bought flesh content foods...what a mistake that was.

It is Poison...giving DEATH and CRUELTY to dogs and cats is ridiculous and unnecessary . especially for vegans.

Cancers...antibiotics...low grade below human flesh etc. it is all unhealthy besides cruel.

My relatives LAUGHED at me...more money than sense they said.

Then my female dog got stomac ulcers...vet said go vegan the acidity in stomac is the issue...and now both my dogs are fed vegan kibble and super healthy. no more stomac ulcers.

There are thousands of long lived healthy vegan dogs and cats out there. BRAMBLE is the most famous of course.

Hope this is informative as i am astonished that vegans do not know these things.

http://vegan-information.com/Vegan_Dogs_and_Cats.html

 

[Forest Nymph]

Poverty. Poverty actually is an excuse. There are people without adequate access to fresh produce let alone vegan pet food.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

Poverty. Poverty actually is an excuse. There are people without adequate access to fresh produce let alone vegan pet food.

now you are speaking for yourself...i suggest that being on the internet is not a very strong proof of poverty lol

if you are trying to imply that you are speaking on behalf of other people...then you should have stated that...

and 3rd point...are you trying to say that because some people might have an excuse to kill humans eat each other as humans have done in history let alone other animals...that this excuses everyone else not in that situation from being vegan ?

because...that is a ridiculous argument.

as ridiculous as saying....well some people are paedophiles so that makes it ok for everyone or anyone else to be too.

if people did not eat meat...then all the lands taken by the big businesses driving people in ethiopia etc off their lands to grow mostly crops to feed the cattle of the rich meat eating nations...there would not be so much poverty...starvation additionally.

that is the truth of masses of poverty out there...caused by animal agriculture needing their lands.

70 percent of ALL usable agricultural land is used to grow crops for FARM ANIMALS ! where the hell can the poor grow even a corn cob when their lands are taken up by that ?

there is no excuse...to cause starvation of so many people i agree...by animal agriculture.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

now you are speaking for yourself...i suggest that being on the internet is not a very strong proof of poverty lol

if you are trying to imply that you are speaking on behalf of other people...then you should have stated that...

and 3rd point...are you trying to say that because some people might have an excuse to kill humans eat each other as humans have done in history let alone other animals...that this excuses everyone else not in that situation from being vegan ?

because...that is a ridiculous argument.

as ridiculous as saying....well some people are paedophiles so that makes it ok for everyone or anyone else to be too.

if people did not eat meat...then all the lands taken by the big businesses driving people in ethiopia etc off their lands to grow mostly crops to feed the cattle of the rich meat eating nations...there would not be so much poverty...starvation additionally.

that is the truth of masses of poverty out there...caused by animal agriculture needing their lands.

70 percent of ALL usable agricultural land is used to grow crops for FARM ANIMALS ! where the hell can the poor grow even a corn cob when their lands are taken up by that ?

my message in my original statement...was NOT SENT/DIRECTED to the poor of this world

they are not on the internet !

it is directed very obviously at people in this forum...who i am tired of seeing excuses and whines and false accusations about how "difficult" it is to be vegan...it sure is DIFFICULT when STARVING to eat anything out in other places where people are not on the internet...i would not DREAM of going off to those people and telling them what I wrote here to who are in the societies CAUSING The starvation so greatly of others...by gorging on meat...that takes so much land and resources to process via crops the animals are fed. hope that explains.

there is no excuse...to cause starvation of so many people i agree...by animal agriculture.

 

[Forest Nymph]

now you are speaking for yourself...i suggest that being on the internet is not a very strong proof of poverty lol

if you are trying to imply that you are speaking on behalf of other people...then you should have stated that...

and 3rd point...are you trying to say that because some people might have an excuse to kill humans eat each other as humans have done in history let alone other animals...that this excuses everyone else not in that situation from being vegan ?

because...that is a ridiculous argument.

as ridiculous as saying....well some people are paedophiles so that makes it ok for everyone or anyone else to be too.

if people did not eat meat...then all the lands taken by the big businesses driving people in ethiopia etc off their lands to grow mostly crops to feed the cattle of the rich meat eating nations...there would not be so much poverty...starvation additionally.

that is the truth of masses of poverty out there...caused by animal agriculture needing their lands.

70 percent of ALL usable agricultural land is used to grow crops for FARM ANIMALS ! where the hell can the poor grow even a corn cob when their lands are taken up by that ?

there is no excuse...to cause starvation of so many people i agree...by animal agriculture.

Wow this is truly an irrational line of reasoning in your post. There are people living in inner city poverty who feed a stray cat or who have a companion animal in their home. There are college students who have a very limited food budget who work part-time with cats or dogs, or who have a companion animal. "The Internet" is absolutely NOT "proof" of someone's poverty or riches, as even the homeless living on the street can use public library computers up to two hours a day in the state of California.

I've seen homeless people on the street with a cat or a dog.

The kind of nasty, self-righteous, privileged veganism you espouse is exactly what turns people off. There are people who eat a vegan or vegetarian diet who are quite poor, and still want to help stray animals, work with shelter animals, or who have a single companion animal as possibly their one friend in life.

I would much rather those people feed cats or dogs traditional pet food than let the cat or dog starve to death.

My vegetarian friend once made an interesting argument. She said "if animals were the only creatures on earth who ate meat, and all meat eating for humans ceased, the animals consumed by other animals could live in freedom and be treated humanely."

You may not agree with her, but you honestly sound like someone who has never been poor, nor known a poor person.

There are so many situations I can think of - a single mother leaving an abusive relationship with just her two children and their cat or dog; a working class person who can't afford to shop at Petco or order bulk vegan cat or dog food online...so their only options are literally walking to the nearest chain grocery store.

There's also the angle that veganism is for people, not for animals. That is, forcing a carnivore, like a cat, to be vegan is actually inhumane, like telling a cat they have to say Hail Mary's or somehow be forced into retribution for human mistakes. Veganism is for PEOPLE because people do wrong things - people should be vegan, whether animals should or not is very much a complex issue of philosophical debate. Particularly when "pet food" is made of human cast offs of their own meat, it's not like there are special factory farms for companion animals.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

look u were not specific...no one knew if u were talking about yourself...which is what people usually talk about...which i addressed saying well if on this forum internet etc u are hardly in the "starving" category...which your reply indicates is correct.

then i thought u might be refering to african starving type countries and people...and i expressed extreme concern for those people driven off their lands due to their lands being used to feed farm animals in the west...which is also correct...and sympathetic...to those in that situation of starvation...your issue that u raised.

NOW you come back and give more "detail" of WHOM you are refering to...NOT you..NOT AFRICA starving people...but people where ? your own country wherever that is...

and NOW i can reply to that since you ahve been specific...and judgemental towards me totally incorrectly since i expressed great sympathy for those starving AS I REPEATED..

so. now I address your issue...you are on about people living on the streets with no money but with pets that feed them whatever they can

so what can i reply to that ?

How does that affect what YOU eat and do ? is obviously my reaction...because if you are talking about social problems and those people of course are not here to speak for themselves...then i am not talking to those people and i have no idea if you are vegan or not !

in fact...it seems to me...since you have AVOIDED saying ARE YOU VEGAN ? i am wasting my time on someone that just wants to kick off judgemental accusations without foundation ...as u did.

it is not ME who is judgemental but you...and u deliberately did not say whom you wre thinking of...and i naturally thought it was YOU ...i am not able to sort out the social problems of our world anymore than you can

as for cruelty accusation of me feeding my dogs vegan..they would be DEAD if not fed vegan i remind you.

so take your judgemental rubbish elsewhere.

Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights shared Howdoigovegan.com's post.
7 hrs ·
An answer to those who whine about how hard it is to be a vegan.




Howdoigovegan.com added 2 new photos.
Yesterday at 4:29pm ·
We've made a trifold pamphlet of our Fast Food Meal Plan in both US Letter and A4 sizes so that you can show everyone that you can eat vegan on a budget, quickly, and with delicious, familiar food.

You can print these from home and always have a few copies to hand out to people to whom you advocate. Show them that eating vegan food doesn't mean buying expensive ingredients or spending hours in the kitchen.

A4 here: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/…/2…/11/A4-Fast-Food.pdf

US Letter here: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/…/US-Letter-Fast-Food.p…

 

[Vegan Dogs]

ah just one more comment...you are totally wrong in saying no animals are farmed for petfoood.

I WAS IN THAT INDUSTRY ! we bred...50 thousand rabbits PER YEAR to earn the minimum wage.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

so the question...if you like as you think it is imporant to talk "philosophy" i suggest...IS A LIFE WORTH A LIFE ? philosophically ?

meaning ? is the life of a RABBIT that I bred as others do for petfood...worth the same as the life of a DOG ?

if so...then it is not justifiable for a HUMAN to breed a rabbit to kill and feed a dog. logical hey

if the dog feeds itself on rabbits...that is nature...no problem...it is only a problem when HUMANS get involved.

I think u can agree with that. on that we can agree.

my dogs...like most pets...would be DEAD if not fed by us humans

but...if i take the life of 50 rabbits to feed 1 dog per year...that is not a fair decision when it is perfectly possible for a pet dog to live healthily on a vegan diet. proven many times...my dogs have been years on this diet...bramble lived 25 years healthily...so QED there is NO need to discuss the IF it is a FACT they do thrive.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

adopt a rabbit or a chicken. if livingn on the streets ...what difference does it make which pet animal anyone takes care of ? no one forcing anyone to keep a dog or cat...strays live off veggies massively additionally...having seen them in their thousands in many counties i saw what they ate...

it is pure bs ...for someone that is not of that community to start making out they represent them...and avoid totally if they are vegan themselves or not and just want to pass nasty critical judgements that were totally incorrect as explained in detail

just looking to lash out superiority attitude obviously.

ignorance...is everywhere i see.

i replied with details ...i dont pussy foot avoiding saying if i am or am not vegan...i dont have the arrogance to say what others living in the streets should do when society allows that to be the case as much as starving people in africa that the replies i got had no interest in

they dont matter obviously it seems having not mentioned them ...but i did...thinking that was who u were refering to and i expressed great sympathy for them...

 

[Vegan Dogs]

peasants...like my relatives...kept high energy hunting dogs...as they do now...for decades those dogs were fed veggie slops not meat...so dont bs about not natural not possible to live off veggies for dogs and cats...strays do...hunting dogs of peasants do.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I'm talking about people in the United States which has more differentiation between the wealthy and poor than any first world developed nation, and I used to live in Los Angeles, which has the largest homeless population in the U.S. due to being a conservative city in a liberal state with romantic historical allure.

I saw multiple homeless folks in L.A. with cats or dogs. I know people who run no-kill shelters and plenty of college students. I actually originated from a working class family in the American South.

People don't have to live in Africa to be poor. In fact, in Africa people might have more access to fresh whole foods than someone living in the inner city in the United States.

You 'naturally' thought I was contributing to factory farming because I pointed out the obvious problem of poverty in my own nation?

I actually don't have any companion animals at the moment, so I don't participate in any sort of buying of companion animal food.

But if I did, there would be multiple factors, the most of which would be my personal or shared income, that I could spend on special vegan food formulated for the health of cats.

I used to feed feral cats as a college student. If I wasn't provided cans of Friskies or Whiskas I would never have been able to feed those cats.

I also lived in L.A. long enough and knew it intimately enough to become acquainted with its inner city poor and street homeless.

Most people who complain about the "poor" and "working class" have zero idea what they are talking about. There are vegan restaurants in "ghetto" neighborhoods in Los Angeles owned by people of color. You could easily be vegan and live there and still not be able to afford or have access to vegan pet food.

I remember once I tracked a cat through a Ralph's parking lot for several months that I tried to save.

If you're not into animal rescue, you likely have NO idea of the struggle of animal rescue - people who may not be homeless or single mothers, but use their own income to try to save ferals or trap, spay and release strays. You may not talk to homeless people on a regular basis.

You're essentially dismissing the possibility of poor vegans, or people who are vegetarian rather than vegan over desperation of availability to edible foods for their own health due to homelessness or poverty, who also strive to feed a companion animal, or even participate in feral feeds or rescues or work part time in a shelter.

I've been vegan for years and while I applaud your passion when it's directed towards the bourgeoisie middle class, directing it towards the poor and working class just makes your arguments look irrational and short-sighted.

It's like you're saying poor people shouldn't help animals or that working class people shouldn't have companion animals.

A similar idiotic argument was made nearly 200 years ago, in regards to letting domestic dogs run free. Next thing Victorians knew, they had packs of wild dogs running starving through their cities. Having a strict policy of "vegan food or no help" is spastically simplistic when talking about handling the problem of domesticated animals, particularly in urban areas riddled by poverty.

 

[Forest Nymph]

peasants...like my relatives...kept high energy hunting dogs...as they do now...for decades those dogs were fed veggie slops not meat...so dont bs about not natural not possible to live off veggies for dogs and cats...strays do...hunting dogs of peasants do.

LOL dogs are omnivores...cats are carnivores. Please at least argue with a basic understanding of science.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

hi back...

i deal first with your question to me

"You 'naturally' thought I was contributing to factory farming because I pointed out the obvious problem of poverty in my own nation?"

not at all is my reply...you did not state if you were a vegan or where you were from or who you wre talking about when talking of the "poor"

so I naturally thought of the poor in great numbers in africa etc...which is true...and i expressed great sympathy for the fact that they are driven off their lands unable to grow even their own food as 70 percent of all usable agricultural land in the world is taken up by big businesses using it to grown farmed animal crops not food for humans.

and i did in no way imply YOU were contributing to factory farming...i said...that non vegans did...clear in my talk about why the land of the greatest number of starving people in our world is used to grow factory farmed animals crops

i had no idea if you were vegan or not...stated also...and only now do you state it ! and i am pleased to read that therefore ! very pleased ! there are many people in this forum...not all vegans...i do not direct any criticisms of non vegans at anyone personally i add...i address the criticism to ALL non vegans generally which is very different to being PERSONAL as anyone here is here to learn and think and learn so i would NOT make PERSONAL JUDGEMENTS of anyone..

UNLIKE what you did to me immediately i add...and quite incorrectly as explained.

as for MOCKING Me in your next statement yet again...please try and refrain from insulting people personally i again say

I repeat for the UMPTEENTH TIME that my dogs HAD to go VEGAN for THEIR HEALTH on VETS ADVICE.

and I repeat for the UMPTEENTH TIME...that coming myself from a PEASANT agricultural background...i lived with HUNTING DOGS that were fed VEGGIE SLOPS for DECADES not MEAT ever AS WE COULD NOT AFFORD IT AND IT WAS NOT NEEDED to keep our hunting dogs HYPER fit and capable of bringing down an Elk even.

We...had no NEED of SCIENCE to know our dogs like the dogs for DECADES we and my ancestors owned...DID NOT NEED FLESH to survive and be happy on the veggie slops given to them as their staple diet. They lived on average 14 years i add...were mostly PRIMITIVE breeds like LAIKAS.

so. then came SCIENCE...but peasants who are not here online of course but i come from that background so am able to speak for them... still do not need that...to know what to feed their dogs...their primitive fast muscled hunting dogs...that they cannot AFFORD and WOULD NOT feed expensive meat to.

Hope that explains again ..but so pleased you are vegan and stated it at last ! cheers.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

yes...i am from BELOW what u call "working class" sector of society...i am from primitive pre industrialisation group of people...agricultural workers.

so that needed repeating too ...and i NEVER said anyone should not "own" companion animals...that is inevitable in the world we live in having created ourselves those domestic breeds.

and I SERIOUSLY WARN YOU...to not use words like "SPASTICALLY" in the negative term that you did in your comment...people who are handicaped...spastics...DESERVE MORE RESPECT THAN THAT !

you wrote..."Having a strict policy of "vegan food or no help" is spastically simplistic"

edit...adding...that term is not used in the positive EVER in the uk...so being in the usa i recall you may not mean it as an insult...but the tone of your continuous judgemental personal criticisms of me did indicate that.

"The offensiveness of spastic and spaz differs considerably between the US and the UK. In the United States, the terms are inoffensive; in the UK, they are ." is easily found online using google i add.

I personally AVOID using any words or terminology that relate to a physical state of people...handicaped people are sometimes called SPASTICS...but i would not use those terms...either of them..when trying to say..."i do not like your comment."

 

[Vegan Dogs]

great news I share...my book has at last arrived !

Gary Francione book...u being in the USA and VEGAN now I know must know that name...

it arrived LATE today as xmas post delays already started people are spending "dosh" bigtime everywhere even when there are foodbanks also in the uk i add...which i regret...i have great sympathy for everyone ...and this weekend my vegan dogs and vegan I were at a demo in fact who gives food to such people...vegan food...the slogan was.."solidarity not charity" which i love.

what book just arrive to me today ? hello noelle,

Your package has been posted through your letterbox.

This package contains:
1. Eat Like You Care: An Examination of the Morality of Eating Animals

You can review or take action on your order in Your Account: https://www.amazon.co.uk/your-orders

 

[Vegan Dogs]

 

[Vegan Dogs]

yes as obvious...me not being one of the "intellectual bourgeois elite" as u rudely accused me of...i had not READ that book.

i went VEGAN after my dogs did....as i repeat ...said before in the 1st comment i made here.

i read nothing...just did it

hope you like the pictures...those are vegan dogs...and they LOVED like our even today hunting peasant dogs the veggie slops...i do buy them vet prepared vegan dog kibble i add...i am MODERN now wink wink...and i cannot cook lol !

last picture. now...let us try and focus on the NON VEGANS not ourselves here i suggest...the world needs that from us..my DOGS do MORE for VEGANISM than i do i add...they are PROOF it will NOT make anyone WEAK...just seeing them...run like the wind...on VEGAN FOOD JUST LIKE THE LAIKA PRIMITIVE HUNTING DOGS have done for DECADES and still do.

ps I do excuse you not knowing all this...why ? because for ALL your obvious EDUCATION and online access...you have not until now known about PEASANT HUNTING DOGS of DECADES fed on VEGAN VEGGIE SLOPS...you live...in a MODERN post industrial society...and you have not READ about MODERN VEGAN KIBBLE either obviously.

So...just as NON VEGANS are to be EXCUSED on the grounds of IGNORANCE...I excuse you for THAT ...but NOT for your judgemental nasty adjectives and words directed personally at ME. Pls learn to control your "internet rage" better I suggest. And learn...about the PAST and PRESENT better...and state WHO you are and WHOM you are refering to when talking about anything to help us all understand what we are on about !

agreed hey ! pls do not reply any further...i have been very informative...given links...cleared up misunderstandings...and now ? i really have other people to deal with that need me more than you do. thanks.

 

[Brigitte]

Hi there, I have just turned WFPB 95% of the time but I do eat fish and or dairy products like when I'm in that time of month. (being a girl) for energy. Anyhow, my dog ate half a baked Butternut squash just like she used to eat meat when I did eat meat I always gave here some too. But just like I love my new vegetarian or semi vegetarian diet she also loves it. I couldn't believe it. She LOVED it. Hope this is not offensive to anyone. I am still transitioning. Thank you for understanding.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

Hi there, I have just turned WFPB 95% of the time but I do eat fish and or dairy products like when I'm in that time of month. (being a girl) for energy. Anyhow, my dog ate half a baked Butternut squash just like she used to eat meat when I did eat meat I always gave here some too. But just like I love my new vegetarian or semi vegetarian diet she also loves it. I couldn't believe it. She LOVED it. Hope this is not offensive to anyone. I am still transitioning. Thank you for understanding.

you know what...that is the MOST POSITIVE NON VEGAN COMMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN !

the MOST OPEN TO TO EMBRACING VEGANISM FOR ALL OF US ! our unfortunate PETS included

and the MOST INTELLIGENT to RECOGNISE our pet dogs and cats LOVE veggies !

I am gobsmacked...

ps what i meant by "unfortunate pets" is that they are OWNED by us in the first place..the comment was NOT saying unfortunate in the sense of anything else.

Their entire existance is subject to our controls and wishes.

We own them. they are not free. that is what I meant when I said unfortunate.