I might not be back

[Brian W]

I might not come back to the forum. Seems that human nature takes genuine principles and turns them into hard and fast rules that it cannot see beyond. All isms and anti-isms go down the same route and individual situations can no longer be judged as individual situations. It's happened to feminism, anti-racism, just about every religion or spiritual belief that has ever existed etc. When idealism creeps in, the reason the principle originally existed becomes forgotten. Veganism shouts loudly and clearly "we don't care about actual animals, only about our ideals concerning animals" There is no realism. There are people here who keep cats locked up indoors and people who inflict their veganism on carnivorous pets. We shouldn't have pets if we can't respect them enough to allow them to follow their natural instincts. I would never keep a cat because of the mice and birds it would bring in but I would never prevent one from hunting. What kind of life can a cat have that is prevented from hunting and fed on tasteless vegan slop all it's life? Your ideals mean nothing if they don't apply to actual creatures and their needs and desires.

 

[MorellaRat]

How do you feel about rescued cats, that would have otherwise died without intervention, but were not purchased by choice or bred to be purchased, that found their way to you via abandonment or other such cruel circumstances?

 

[beancounter]

I would rather see you stay.

 

[Lou]

First off, I think you were a good contributor to the VF and I hope you stick around. I wish I could remember if we have disagreed on things before. Maybe we have agreed on things too. I do remember that your posts have always been thoughtful.

Also your thoughts on this matter probably could use some refinement. After reading your "argument" I was pretty unsure of your points. In fact, and I say this with some caution, you seem to guilty of the same thing that you are against : idealism. Seems like you should stick around and keep the discussion alive. Explaining your thoughts could help you refine them. Plus help inform others of your POV.

I don't own any pets, I'm basically too selfish. I can't see myself making a commitment to caring for someone else for the rest of their life. But I respect those who have rescued a pet. From where I stand that is a very compassionate act. And I'm pretty sure that compassion is what vegans are all about.

Before I joined the VF I had no idea that cats could be vegan too. Vegan Dogs seems to me to be the real expert on this. Not having a cat (or a dog) I don't usually read thru her posts (they are usually pretty long). But I'm pretty sure her cats don't eat "vegan slop". That seems to me to be an uninformed and biased description.

I do have a friend who has two dog and they eat vegan. The dog's meals are home cooked. I've actually tried it and its pretty much a healthy tasty stew. Way better than canned or dry dog food.

So again please stick around and take part in these conversations.

 

[silva]

I might not come back to the forum. Seems that human nature takes genuine principles and turns them into hard and fast rules that it cannot see beyond. All isms and anti-isms go down the same route and individual situations can no longer be judged as individual situations. It's happened to feminism, anti-racism, just about every religion or spiritual belief that has ever existed etc. When idealism creeps in, the reason the principle originally existed becomes forgotten. Veganism shouts loudly and clearly "we don't care about actual animals, only about our ideals concerning animals" There is no realism. There are people here who keep cats locked up indoors and people who inflict their veganism on carnivorous pets. We shouldn't have pets if we can't respect them enough to allow them to follow their natural instincts. I would never keep a cat because of the mice and birds it would bring in but I would never prevent one from hunting. What kind of life can a cat have that is prevented from hunting and fed on tasteless vegan slop all it's life? Your ideals mean nothing if they don't apply to actual creatures and their needs and desires.

Well there is a lot of thoughts about whats best for animals we keep and I try not to keep any hard and fast opinions.
In the US keeping cats inside in urban/suburban areas is a really good idea if you don't want them poisoned, run over, stolen, nabbed by coyotes....
I think ignored member is doing fine by their cats/dogs. I have them on ignore because the way it is right now, I can't promote vegan cat food. There are far too many in need, and still a long to go to have proper formulations, as well as the need to monitor. I believe the reviews are biased, since vegans would be the vast majority to want this food to be successful. The processed cat food probably isn't any better, but it is what we know. Like so many omnivores and their nutrition worries I guess....

I hope you do stay Brian, you offer a lot here, and keep a good balance, and I just like you! You're thinking of leaving because of people caring more for their own personal purity than what's actually doing animals any good would only tip the balance more towards their opinions. Please don't let that happen!

 

[Vegan Dogs]

I might not come back to the forum. Seems that human nature takes genuine principles and turns them into hard and fast rules that it cannot see beyond. All isms and anti-isms go down the same route and individual situations can no longer be judged as individual situations. It's happened to feminism, anti-racism, just about every religion or spiritual belief that has ever existed etc. When idealism creeps in, the reason the principle originally existed becomes forgotten. Veganism shouts loudly and clearly "we don't care about actual animals, only about our ideals concerning animals" There is no realism. There are people here who keep cats locked up indoors and people who inflict their veganism on carnivorous pets. We shouldn't have pets if we can't respect them enough to allow them to follow their natural instincts. I would never keep a cat because of the mice and birds it would bring in but I would never prevent one from hunting. What kind of life can a cat have that is prevented from hunting and fed on tasteless vegan slop all it's life? Your ideals mean nothing if they don't apply to actual creatures and their needs and desires.

All you care about is pet animals is clear.

I feed my cat vegan cat food as it is great healthy food for her and I care about not suffocating to death or boiling alive thousands of only a few weeks old animals.

Not idealism but reality.

You don't even mention their desires ...for life...so you don't care about them is clear.

Oh the whine about indoor cats didn't include caged farm animals in not whole house space but cramped cages.

This issue isn't about me but animals lives.

 

[feather]

@Brian W I want you to stay.
I'm thinking that the black and white thinking about animals, always, never, is probably unrealistic and not particularly healthy and in touch with reality. What I mean is, what shall we do about the overpopulation of white tail deer in wisconsin, causing 100's of thousands of dollars due to car crashes causing damage and death and dismemberment of humans due to the deer? Are we ever going to talk about that reality? Or is it, never spoken? What about an unhindered coyote population dragging off and eating small pet animals? There are many realities that seem off limits here. I'm only new so I just haven't come across any of that, reality.

 

[Vegan Dogs]

@Brian W I want you to stay.
I'm thinking that the black and white thinking about animals, always, never, is probably unrealistic and not particularly healthy and in touch with reality. What I mean is, what shall we do about the overpopulation of white tail deer in wisconsin, causing 100's of thousands of dollars due to car crashes causing damage and death and dismemberment of humans due to the deer? Are we ever going to talk about that reality? Or is it, never spoken? What about an unhindered coyote population dragging off and eating small pet animals? There are many realities that seem off limits here. I'm only new so I just haven't come across any of that, reality.

He isn't interested in wildlife wants pets to kill them even is clear obsessed by pets

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Even though I´m not convinced you explained your viewpoint very eloquently, I think there is an essence of truth in your argument (and it makes me think of all the white liberals that were calling for defunding of the police and ignoring the views of black people who are saying no please don´t if anyone even bothered to ask them) but I'm not convinced that the imperfections in the way some ideologies are applied are so critical. The benefits from these ideologies are outweighing the bad.

I hope you stay as well, but I think there is a third way which is that you take a break from certain types of discussions while still posting in food threads, or disappear from the forum for a few weeks or months and then come back.

 

[JacobEdward]

There should definitely be a way to block individuals if you're having a problem with someone

Pets not allowed to be natural is more about the situation, animals at sanctuaries are essentially pets with more awesome/rich humans... Lots of cats and dogs are probably better off in their own colony's

 

[beforewisdom]

I might not come back to the forum. Seems that human nature takes genuine principles and turns them into hard and fast rules that it cannot see beyond. All isms and anti-isms go down the same route and individual situations can no longer be judged as individual situations. It's happened to feminism, anti-racism, just about every religion or spiritual belief that has ever existed etc. When idealism creeps in, the reason the principle originally existed becomes forgotten.

Yes, I have seen that before many times.

Veganism shouts loudly and clearly "we don't care about actual animals, only about our ideals concerning animals"

I see this too it is common.

There is no realism. There are people here who keep cats locked up indoors and people who inflict their veganism on carnivorous pets. We shouldn't have pets if we can't respect them enough to allow them to follow their natural instincts. I would never keep a cat because of the mice and birds it would bring in but I would never prevent one from hunting. What kind of life can a cat have that is prevented from hunting and fed on tasteless vegan slop all it's life? Your ideals mean nothing if they don't apply to actual creatures and their needs and desires.

^^^^ That quote sounds like you are being a hypocrite. Your ideas about animals are more important than actual animals than actual individual situations. Like it or not there are many unwanted cats that exist. They are better off in an apartment than being euthanized or living their lives out in shelter cages where they can barely move.


Your hypocrisy is really about butthurt that people with ideas about animals, as you put it, don't agree with your personal ideas about animals.

You are doing a very old web board thing by posting a "swan song", a message how you are leaving because people here are just so bad. It aggrandizes your ego and on your way out you get another ego stroke lecturing people. Just like the vegans you say you have a problem about.


Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

 

[Danielle]

There's other reasons why not to let them outside and hunt, they could get kidnapped.
Every cat me and mom had, I wanted to keep them inside to keep them safe. Well, eventually they were let outside and something happened, they never returned. It was always okay for the first few months, but eventually something happens.

 

[shyvas]

There's other reasons why not to let them outside and hunt, they could get kidnapped.
Every cat me and mom had, I wanted to keep them inside to keep them safe. Well, eventually they were let outside and something happened, they never returned. It was always okay for the first few months, but eventually something happens.

I regularly see dead cats on the side of the road, which have been run over by a car. It's always so sad.

 

[Lou]

I just saw this cartoon. So many places I could post it. this thread was still busy so ....

Maybe a bit of an over -simplification but maybe sort of what we need.