Protected area for vegetarians ..

[Clueless Git]

Having just breached forum rules by posting a vegan perspective in the vegetarian forum (for which I beg forgiveness on the grounds of not having done so with bad intention) I was thinking this ..

IF (that's a qualifier) ...

1. Most vegetarians are ex omnis who 'saw the light'

And ..

2. Most vegans are ex-vegetarians who 'saw the light again'

Is not 'banning' vegans from sharing the secondary light they saw with vegetarians the same as banning vegetarians from sharing the initial light they saw with omnis?

 

[Clueless Git]

Am I allowed to vote in my own poll, btw?

 

[Blobbenstein]

just hang around in the vegan area and wait for vegetarians to post about how vegans are extreme.....build it and they will come.....well, it's built already, but you get my drift.

I went to VB and posted some twaddle in an egg thread, when I first joined, and got the **** kicked out of me by Diana........it sort of changed my perspective.

 

[Second Summer]

Is not 'banning' vegans from sharing the secondary light they saw with vegetarians the same as banning vegetarians from sharing the initial light they saw with omnis?

We're not banning anyone from seeing the light. It's just that it's unnecessary, annoying and counter-productive if there is vegan proselytizing in every thread where there is mention of eggs or dairy, especially when it is evident that the thread starter did not intend to discuss the ethical aspects of these foods. It's unnecessary because vegetarians on this board can't avoid reading the vegan point of view anyway. It's annoying because they already know the argument, so repeating the argument isn't going to help. It's counter-productive because humans are often irrational and will associate the message with the messenger and their behaviour.

Of course, making the argument from time to time is fine, especially if there is a new angle or a different way of arriving at the same conclusion. Just don't derail other threads with it. Start your own threads in a suitable forum.

 

[Clueless Git]

At serious risk of appearing to be incredibly rude ..

We're not banning anyone from seeing the light. It's just that it's unnecessary, annoying and counter-productive if there is veg*an/AR proselytizing in every thread where there is mention of meat/veal/foie gras/fur/hunting/etc, especially when it is evident that the thread starter did not intend to discuss the ethical aspects of these foods/things. It's unnecessary because omnis on this board can't avoid reading the veg*an/AR point of view anyway. It's annoying because they already know the argument, so repeating the argument isn't going to help. It's counter-productive because humans are often irrational and will associate the message with the messenger and their behaviour.

It's basicaly the exact same argument that a non-vegan/AR forum would/could use to keep veg*an/AR 'proselytizing' confined.

'Less I missed a criticaly important difference twix veg*ans/AR 'proselytizing' to omnis and vegans 'proselytizing' to vegetarians, that is.

 

[Envy]

I wouldn't advocate the benefits of vegetarianism on a forum for omnivores either unless I was encouraged.

 

[Clueless Git]

I wouldn't advocate the benefits of vegetarianism on a forum for omnivores either unless I was encouraged.

I've not ruled out that there may be a greater wisdom than I can get my rather simplistic mind around in this.

That I got a lifetime ban from one non-veg*an forum following a series of it's higher profile members publicly posting that they deemed the veg*an arguments to have won (in a series of very vicious 'debates') and were going to give veg*nism a try is the reason for me doubting that though.

Slightly interesting thing in that ...

It was not the 'power' of the veg*an arguments that actualy did the 'damage'.

More that in a no-holds barred 'debate' the counter arguments became far too ridiculous, abhorent even, for anyone with any self respect to want to be associated with.

Such counter arguments included ...

1. A female mod defending rape 'as not wrong' where rape was not against the law ..

2. A human cull by starvation in the third world being justified by the greater right of people in first world countries to live exactly as they wish

3. A theory that a meat centric diet could beat plant based diets on land efficiency by the simple expedient of building tall enough multi-story factory farms ..

 

[Blobbenstein]

just create controversially titles threads in the vegan forum:
"The omelet of DEATH"
"Is cheese really the produce of Beelzebub?"

etc

 

[Second Summer]

It's basicaly the exact same argument that a non-vegan/AR forum would/could use to keep veg*an/AR 'proselytizing' confined.

'Less I missed a criticaly important difference twix veg*ans/AR 'proselytizing' to omnis and vegans 'proselytizing' to vegetarians, that is.

At what omni boards are the vegetarian arguments and philosophy as well-represented as the vegan arguments and philosophy are on this board?

 

[Clueless Git]

At what omni boards are the vegetarian arguments and philosophy as well-represented as the vegan arguments and philosophy are on this board?

That is more asking for a comparison of degree rather than a comparison of principles, IS.

The degree to which this forum operates a flawed (debatable) principle is infinitely more tolerable/understandable/etc than the degree to which the same principle is applied elsewhere, imho.

I trust that the very fact that I feel 'safe' to ask such questions here is some small indicator of my respect and appreciation of that?

 

[Second Summer]

That is more asking for a comparison of degree rather than a comparison of principles, IS.

No. It's our policy to allow people to post about veganism and AR, and to allow debates about the merits of these philosophies. All we ask is that you show basic etiquette by starting your own threads in a suitable forum or post in existing relevant threads instead of derailing other threads where veganism & AR are not the topics intended for discussion. This is no different than what is generally expected of message board members elsewhere on the Internet with regard to any topic, not just veganism & AR.

I trust that the very fact that I feel 'safe' to ask such questions here is some small indicator of my respect and appreciation of that?

Well, I'm glad you enjoy the conversation.

 

[yakherder]

I voted yes, but only because I like the naked in a penguin colony idea. That seems fun.

Really, nothing anyone can do or say here is going to offend me, hurt my feelings, or **** me off.

There are about 7,046,000,000 people in the world, and I don't care what 7,045,999,999 of them post.

 

[Blobbenstein]

I think if anyone so much as looks at a veggieburger they should be bombarded with vegan leaflets. CG should hang around the fridges in Tesco watching out for this. I think sending him to the South Pole would only bother the penguins.

 

[Envy]

I've not ruled out that there may be a greater wisdom than I can get my rather simplistic mind around in this.

That I got a lifetime ban from one non-veg*an forum following a series of it's higher profile members publicly posting that they deemed the veg*an arguments to have won (in a series of very vicious 'debates') and were going to give veg*nism a try is the reason for me doubting that though.

Slightly interesting thing in that ...

It was not the 'power' of the veg*an arguments that actualy did the 'damage'.

More that in a no-holds barred 'debate' the counter arguments became far too ridiculous, abhorent even, for anyone with any self respect to want to be associated with.

Such counter arguments included ...

1. A female mod defending rape 'as not wrong' where rape was not against the law ..

2. A human cull by starvation in the third world being justified by the greater right of people in first world countries to live exactly as they wish

3. A theory that a meat centric diet could beat plant based diets on land efficiency by the simple expedient of building tall enough multi-story factory farms ..

Anecdotal evidence isn't the best though.

From what I've seen in studies, people are more likely to reject something if they feel that it has been "forced" upon them. Call that a defensive stance based on unwillingness to change if you want, but I don't think (or hope) that vegetarians who dislike vegans preaching are the same who do that towards omnis. Maybe it's a bit like how I would not talk about the virtues of atheism on a christian-centric board, even though I admit that it's not 100% the same due to the benefits of veganism being far more significant. Either way, vegans have their own place here, and if someone wanted to go vegan, the would probably ask for help/assistance. It's not like vegetarians are oblivious to what's happening in the dairy farms.

 

[Clueless Git]

I voted yes, but only because I like the naked in a penguin colony idea. That seems fun.

I think if anyone so much as looks at a veggieburger they should be bombarded with vegan leaflets. CG should hang around the fridges in Tesco watching out for this. I think sending him to the South Pole would only bother the penguins.

at both of you.

 

[Pirate]

How can anyone not tick a box that gives a penguin option?

Anyway, this is not a vegan forum, or for people who are going to turn vegan. this is a vegetarian and vegan forum. If someone has any interest in going vegan I'm sure theyll check out that part of the forum on their own.

 

[Clueless Git]

How can anyone not tick a box that gives a penguin option?

I heard that the market price of good nesting sites all over the Antarctic have crashed as a result of this poll.

 

[shyvas]

How can anyone not tick a box that gives a penguin option?

Anyway, this is not a vegan forum, or for people who are going to turn vegan. this is a vegetarian and vegan forum. If someone has any interest in going vegan I'm sure theyll check out that part of the forum on their own.

Thanks for the reminder Liz.

 

[Mischief]

I think if anyone so much as looks at a veggieburger they should be bombarded with vegan leaflets. CG should hang around the fridges in Tesco watching out for this. I think sending him to the South Pole would only bother the penguins.

Yeah, I've been regretting my vote ever since I started looking at it from the penguins' POV.