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Rat/mouse problem

Discussion in 'General' started by Damo, Nov 20, 2017.

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  1. Damo
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    Damo Administrator Staff Member

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    So I saw a post this morning of a vegan retailer getting slammed because of their inhumane way of dealing with their pest problem and I didn't quite understand what the problem was.

    Rats/mice spread germs and disease, I get that there's other ways to trap mice without killing them but what would you do with potentially a lot of mice? Think about it, this place is based in London so there's probably going to be a lot of mice roaming the streets of London right? What would you do with all the mice that you collected? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not aware of a mouse or rat sanctuary, yes we'd all like to avoid the killing of anything but is that really practical? It's not exactly the same as humans mass-breeding animals so that they can eat them for lunch we're talking about pests that spread disease and impact health, mosquitoes for example what would you do? Collect all the mosquitoes and place them in safer place?

    Again I would prefer to avoid the killing of everything but when we're talking about a pest problem that if not dealt with becomes worse and worse what else can we do? I believe in being as vegan as possible but sometimes I think people take veganism to the extreme, what if the cement holding your house together contains animal byproducts? Would you bulldoze your house down and build another? No you wouldn't because it's impractical for you to do so.

    What are your views on this? Here's an article for the store that's being slammed.
     
  2. alleycat

    alleycat Active Member

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    In Australia rats and mice are not native animals and along with other feral animals cause a lot of problems. Simply releasing them outside is not a good option. No rodents come into my house as my 5 indoor cats would make short work of them, but a cat is not a good option for a food shop. I really can't blame the rodents any more than I can blame any other feral animal down under, they are here because of people, and people look for easy solutions to solve "problems". I am not clever enough to think of any real solutions, but if you have to use traps at least use ones that inflict the minimum pain/ stress. Glue traps are horrible.
     
  3. Damo
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    Damo Administrator Staff Member

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    Okay, I overlooked that they were used glue traps so yep that's rather horrid.

    I think the issue is that there's probably thousands of rodents in London, I highly doubt there's a place to keep them all under control if everyone safely caught them and releasing them would probably mean they'd return in larger numbers.

    People look past what's logical sometimes, you can't save everyone.
     
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  4. poivron

    poivron Member

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    Rats are lovely animals who display emotions like empathy. Google "rats" and "empathy", and you will find videos showing behavior that's almost human, or even better than human in some cases. For example, if one rat gets hurt, other rats nearby squirm as if they, too, were in pain. A free rat even goes out of its way to free a fellow rat who is placed in an uncomfortable situation.

    If we lived in a society that respected animals, we would not be poisoning or trapping rats. We would have developed medication to make them sterile. While one could argue that this is not vegan, since we would not be asking the rats for consent before sterilizing them, it would be a much more humane way to keep rats out of environments where they cause harm to other animals.

    I wouldn't blame a vegan for causing the killing of a rat, because we all live in a society that doesn't give us too many options when another animal invades our space. But I would say, let's not give up on this issue too easily. There are much better ways to deal with problems like a rat invasion, and the more popular veganism becomes, the more ways will be developed to solve these problems in more humane ways.
     
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  5. windrose

    windrose Member

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    They are basically vermin and can spread disease..what if your dog contracted rabies? Would you not put it down?
     
  6. nancyvinci45

    nancyvinci45 Member

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    How you get rid of rats peacefully? They cause a lot of ruckus just with their presence :(
     
  7. alleycat

    alleycat Active Member

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    Would you also put down your parent or child if they caught rabies ?
     
  8. alleycat

    alleycat Active Member

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    Check out the karni mata temple, we can live with rodents
     
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  9. windrose

    windrose Member

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    Fortunately there is a process to deal with humans who have contracted Hydrophobia .To the best of my knowledge there is not for animals therefore the humane euthanasia .
     
  10. Connie
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    Connie Active Member

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    Rabies and hydrophobia are not that same thing. Hydrophobia, the fear of water, is a symptom of rabies though admittedly it is also the exceptionally old name for the disease. Rabies is still a fatal disease even in humans. Everything is centred around prevention not curing it. I know because I face it and live with the knowledge that I have the chance of developing the disease. Luckily I was immunised against rabies (this only reduces the risk it does not prevent the disease) and my shots were up to date before I was bitten on the edge of a known rabies outbreak zone. The pack leader who bit me was not acting normally. It had already attacked and bitten my ex boyfriend in an inprovoked attack and then came at me when I went to his help. It left me needing over 100 stitches to a single wound on my leg.

    And in some cultures in some countries, yes they do still take out humans and kill them when they are known to have rabies. However most when countries simply deal with the pain and paralysis and basically support you until you die from it keeping you in isolation. The disease is still nearly always fatal and quite quickly fatal comparatively speaking that is.
     
  11. windrose

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    I do hope and pray that recover successfully.
    It may be a generational thing but in Canada Rabies had traditionally been referred to as Hydrophobia.
    That being said..l still consider Rats vermin though l will concede many keep them as pets!
     
  12. windrose

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  13. Maria Stavrou

    Maria Stavrou Member

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    I feel the same way about fleas and mosquitoes but not rodents.

    I have 2 pet rats and I've had a mouse before, I don't see mice and rats as disgusting like most people do but I can understand that wild rats and mice are very dirty and dangerous if food is contaminated with their droppings or urine... and mice and male rats are incontinent so as they run around, they leak pee all over.

    But all ways of dealing with them are distressing and unrealistic. Glue traps are obviously cruel but poisons are too - they don't work instantly or in minutes or even an hour. Poison takes HOURS and hours to kill the rodents. Meanwhile they are in absolute agony... until eventually their guts explode :(

    I'm crazy because I've daydreamed so much about having a sanctuary for rats and mice. Dividing them into male and female so they don't breed and making sure they have warmth, space to play and delicious food. They only live for 2-3 years so they can die from old age. I know that's extremely unrealistic. Also you'd have to catch them first, which is very hard to do, especially for rats as they are very intelligent. And you can't have too many rats together as they would drive each other nuts and end up hurting or killing each other.

    Another idea that was being trialled is contaminating their food source with something that makes them infertile. I think that's possibly the most ethical solution but I am not sure if this has been successful or how much it would cost to do this.
     
  14. veganDreama

    veganDreama Active Member

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    I heard of that. They are lucky rats to live in the temple when other rats are so badly treated.
     
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  15. rogerjolly
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    rogerjolly Active Member

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    In my days of fanatical scuba diving I had several lengthy stays with “save the planet” organisations in the tropics. One was to a desert island (desert in the sense that there were no natives living there, just the volunteers) surveying a coral reef in the Philippines.

    Rats had been inadvertently introduced from boats and their number had increased to near plague proportions because of the presence of humans. No matter how hard you try to sensibly dispose of waste food rats will always find access to it.

    At night we snuggled down into our sleeping bags in the communal sleeping area. You could just about guarantee that you would be woken by a rat creeping over your hands or face. It was not a pleasant experience.

    A year later the organisation left the island because of fears of piracy. The only visitors then were the occasional fishermen who helped themselves to anything of any value left behind such as the toilets.

    Presumably the rat population has now declined to almost zero because of starvation. The relationship between humans and rodents is indeed very complex and not a happy one.

    For me discussions of topics such as dealing with pests or keeping pets or eating almonds are all perfectly appropriate and proper for vegans. But we must surely keep to the forefront of our minds that humans breed millions of animals with the deliberate intention of later killing them for food. And it is all totally unnecessary, morally reprehensible, unhealthy and detrimental to the planet.

    Phew. I’m glad I got that off my chest! :)

    Roger.
     
  16. veganDreama

    veganDreama Active Member

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    I suppose it depends what your views on rats are but my free range rescued pet rats also came across me while asleep. Some of them even snuggled on my pillow next to my head. It was delightful!
     
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  17. ski

    ski Member

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    if you cant rescue / release them because too many of them i see no reason to kill them / get someone to do it i assume you are talking about rats / cockroaches
     
  18. Rory17

    Rory17 Member

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    Hi ,
    Rats, mice and other “problem” animals should be dealt with as humanely as possible whenever we can. Using humane repellents and even safe, “humane” live traps are preferable to unnecessary violence...
    Please treat mice, rats and other “problem” animals with kindness, respect and compassion whenever you can. Thank you to the moon and back.
    Have the best day and/or night ever!
     
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  19. rogerjolly
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    rogerjolly Active Member

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    Perhaps the difference in our two experiences is this.

    You shared your pillow with good friends that you could trust implicitly. :)

    I shared mine with complete strangers with a reputation for spreading diseases. :(

    Roger.
     

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