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So confused ...

Discussion in 'General' started by ConstantConfusion, Jun 3, 2018.

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  1. ConstantConfusion

    ConstantConfusion New Member

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    Hi all, this is my first post here and it’s multifaceted so I may go back and reword it several times! I’m a little stumped with which direction to go and wanted to get views from different communities.

    First admission, I am currently a meat eater. I have often thought that if I were really honest with myself then I should probably be vegan, and that there was no real excuse not to be other than fear of change or inconvenience... i.e. my understanding was that veganism was equally or potentially more healthful than other types of diet, as well as more ethical to boot.

    However, last year I had a standard medical that pointed out my health markers were not what they should be, this coincided with me working through some of Sam Harris’ podcasts (I know he has struggled on/off with vegetarianism/veganism), one of which was an interview he did with Gary Taubes. Off the back of this and lots of further reading (Nina Teischolz, Jason Fung, Jimmy Moore etc) with veganism firmly pushed to the back of my mind, I embarked on a low carb, high fat ketogenic diet (meat and dairy included), cutting out all grains, starches and sugars. What attracted me to this approach was the purported ease of weight loss and significant improvement to risk of heart attacks/metabolic syndrome etc. My diet before wasn’t great, but likewise it wasn’t bad - I didn’t binge on donuts or chocolate but I did eat pasta, bread, cereal etc as much as the next person.

    This is where I start to become conflicted, the LCHF Keto diet is definitely working for me, I’ve not counted calories, I never go hungry, I’ve dropped 30lbs in 3 months and feeling healthier than ever. I’ve found it very easy and sustainable so far, there is always something tasty available.

    Given my own results I find it easy to agree with proponents of this way of life and just as easy to write off those who say it’s a fad or unhealthy diet and that we should be eating plenty of healthy whole grains and plant products. However I’m perpetually conscious that I’m likely suffering from confirmation bias and that I need to be more critical of the Keto/meat eating community. Ultimately I just want to lose weight, be healthy and be around for my kids in the long term.

    I suppose this is leading me to a couple of questions:

    1. Has anyone been able to endure vegan & keto together? If so how did you make it work, for how long and what do you eat other than endless avocados/olive oil? Have you tracked your health markers throughout the process and how do they look?
    2. What are the best sources of scientific evidence, e.g. studies or meta-analyses that point to veganism being the best option for health?(doesn’t have to be keto veganism). I want to be objective and follow the science so if the evidence actually shows I’m best coming off keto and adopting mainstream veganism then I want to know so that I can do it. I’m asking this community as I don’t want a meat eating/LCHF lens over the answer. If Keto and/or meat isn’t the answer - I’ll drop it.
    I’m already on board with the ethical argument for veganism so you don’t need to convince me there, my primary interest is health and what the science shows.

    Does anyone have any thoughts?
     
  2. Pops
    Bookworm

    Pops Member

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    I could post hundreds of links to scientific studies on the positive health effects of veganism. I could also post just as many saying it's not ideal or optimal. Sadly, you're probably going to find more people against it than for it. The science is there, but tends to get muddled in all the fake research or agriculture funded research, which of course is totally biased. You need to dig for the truth, but it is there.
    There's several doctors that I'd suggest researching, if you'd sincerely like to learn more about the real health benefits of a WFPB diet. The truth is that most of them don't even call it a vegan diet. It's often referred to as a whole foods plant based diet.
    I'd suggest checking out these doctors for starters: Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. Michael Klaper, Dr. Neal Barnard, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, Dr. Colin Campbell
     
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  3. Consistency
    No Mood

    Consistency Active Member

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    I have a question before I say anything.

    Do you feel like there is something still missing?
     
  4. amberfunk

    amberfunk Active Member

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    Something that I've notcied with people who are on keto diets is that they focus on the weight loss. No one has considered how much fat and cholesterol they are consuming. While you are losing weight you are clogging your arteries.
     
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  5. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member

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    This man did Keto to the extreme, an all meat diet. Here is an analysis of his blood work. Perhaps it might be worth considering if your concerns are mainly health related:

     
  6. ConstantConfusion

    ConstantConfusion New Member

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    Thanks for the responses so far everyone! Some
    interesting things for me to follow up on.

    To respond to some specifics:

    @Pops thanks for the names, I’ll do some follow up on them but you’re right, it’s very hard to pick apart and see through all the agendas on both sides.

    @Consistency it’s not that I necessarily feel something is missing, it’s more about making sure I have as much data as possible so I can make an informed decision for my health. It’s also wider than just me, both my father and uncle are heavily overweight and I’m trying to find a diet that could work for them and they could stick to, and then live it by example.

    @amberfunk I’m tracking all my numbers and my current working theory is that outward healthfulness (i.e. less obese, more energy, better sleep etc) is reflective of inner health. Additionally, my understanding is that the link between dietary fat/cholesterol and heart disease is now largely debunked, with current medical views on it lining up against chronic arterial inflammation as the cause. Happy to change my
    views on this though if you have something that shows otherwise.

    @Nekodaiden nice video, some worrying numbers in there! The only one I’d disagree with placing importance on is LDL-C as it’s a calculated number, what we’d really need to see would be his LDL-P breakdown to understand whether his LDL is of the atherogenic or benign pattern. His blood sugars and testosterone are really well off though! Good news is I have no desire to go on a meat only diet :) even now on Keto I eat plenty of salad and vegetables every day and wouldn’t want to give them up; as mentioned I’m keen to hear if anyone has managed to do vegan&keto together. I’m having my bloods done this week after 4 months on Keto, we shall see what they reveal - I’ll post them here when I get them.
     

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