UK Speciesism and Predation

[JacobVeganism]

So I'm sure many of us as vegans have heard the argument that "lions eat other animals, so why can't we?" or that if we were "on a desert island, wouldn't you eat a pig?". The typical response to the latter question is "yes, similarly to how I may eat a human in a life or death scenario, but we are in neither situation, which is why it is not justified to eat neither our fellow man, nor an animal". However, I believe that I may not ear a pig in this scenario. Consider this: carnism is not simply ending one life to save another, it is to consistently end life, and up to 100 lives over the course of a predators existence, merely so it can exist. And this goes further; in the scenario of a 2 man stranded survival, one will eat the other, or else they will both die. With predator and prey, for both to remain pacifistic, only one will die. Taking this into account, is it ok for lions to eat prey? Is it immoral for us to stand by and witness this immoral act? Please consider the 1 life to 100 deaths analogy, it puts things into perspective.

 

[Poppy]

The wonderful thing about humans is that we get to decide how we're going to live in this world. A lion does not have that option. It's not a moral issue because a lion is a lion. But because we humans have developed as herbivores, and are intelligent, curious, and adaptable, we now have a choice over what we choose to eat. We can choose to be vegan or not. We do not have to kill animals to live healthy, happy and satisfying lives. The moral issue arises when we have choices to make.

Just curious - are you a part of the Vegan and Farming Connections FB page?

 

[JacobVeganism]

The wonderful thing about humans is that we get to decide how we're going to live in this world. A lion does not have that option. It's not a moral issue because a lion is a lion. But because we humans have developed as herbivores, and are intelligent, curious, and adaptable, we now have a choice over what we choose to eat. We can choose to be vegan or not. We do not have to kill animals to live healthy, happy and satisfying lives. The moral issue arises when we have choices to make.

Just curious - are you a part of the Vegan and Farming Connections FB page?

I am not a part of this page. You consider immoral actions caused by others to be acceptable? Refering to choices: don't we have a choice to intervene and prevent the suffering if sentient beings? (Hypothetically, if it were practicable). I am not saying that it has equal moral weight to directly harm, and to prevent others from doing so, but we still have an obligation. Let me put it this way: say a murderer who was severely mentally handicapped, to the point in which he was not aware of his moral culpability, were to be on the loose, killing children. Would be not have an obligation to prevent this murderer? Yes, although choosing not to do so isn't as unethical as murdering yourself, it is still immoral not to imprison a murderer. Yet someone could make your very argument in response, and allow the murderer to remain on the loose: we have "developed intellect" and are not responsible as they are not a result of our "choices". See what I'm getting at? If something is unethical, for us to allow it to happen is also unethical. Therefore, if it is unethical for a lion to end many lives to preserve his own, we should do something about it. If you disagree with it being unethical in itself, then that is a different argument and I would like to see your response if that is the case, after all, suicide via starvation would make the most sense if the lion were to be able to choose.

 

[Emma JC]

is it my imagination or has there been a plague of trolls visited on us?

Emma JC

 

[JacobVeganism]

is it my imagination or has there been a plague of trolls visited on us?

Emma JC

I don't see why the vegan community is so quick to label people within it as "trolls" just because they try to apply their ethics in other areas. This is a philosophy section, why are you here if not to discuss philosophy? Your comment is very disregarding considering the subject matter. Read my post and reply and seriously consider what I am saying. If life has intrinsic value, then 100 deaths does not justify one life, yes? If life doesn't have intrinsic value (which I can accept, after all suffering is the only factor in ethics), then surely we must deem painless slaughter of bovine animals as not unethical. All I am asking is for consistency.
Edit: Just wanted to clarify that I became a vegan in order for my morals to be consistent. If people like yourself are not willing to apply it further, or justify otherwise, then you are either vegan purely for self-assurance, or you are just to lazy to think about it. The latter seems hypocritical considering what we are promoting.

 

[Poppy]

I think the question is Is it moral for us to allow trolls to philosophize, or should we do something before they hurt themselves?

 

[JacobVeganism]

I think the question is Is it moral for us to allow trolls to philosophize, or should we do something before they hurt themselves?

Ok can someone define troll please? I was under the impression that it meant someone who is joking or being sarcastic. I am sincere in my questioning, and I refuse to believe that people can claim that this is such an easy question, that asking it alone must deem the asker to be joking??

 

[Second Summer]

MOD POST
I've locked this thread because the question has been answered. OP, if you do not understand, please re-read the responses. Also, please note this is not a playground for people claiming to be vegan (but with zero posting history on the forum) to try out half-baked theories in defence of killing animals.