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The city of angels bans fur!

Discussion in 'Animals' started by Forest Nymph, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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  2. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    This is a step in the right direction, but what about leather? Leather is skin with the fur removed. Hopefully someday they're ban meat as well.


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  3. Lou
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    Lou Active Member

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    In other news.... London Fashion Week is now Fur Free.

    Although I am also in favor of banning leather, fur is an obvious first step. The animals killed for fur are almost always bred for the fur. Leather is almost exclusively a byproduct of the beef industry.

    We can't change the world overnight. So celebrate the little victories, eh?

    (oh shoot. I can't believe I used " almost exclusively" in a sentence when I should know better.)
     
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  4. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You must have been in Canada all this time, eh?

    So good to see you back, Lou!!


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  5. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Yeah Lana del Rey just released a new song and I love it, then I look at the lyrics and she talks about wearing leather. She's a vegetarian! Her sister is vegan! It's just like...ok....leather is so ingrained into the fashion culture that apparently some people don't even think about it.

    As for meat, I am all for raising prices and taxing meat. We could easily do that if we closed down factory farms. If factory farming were against the law, meat would naturally become outrageously expensive due to the smaller amount produced. The tax could result from climate change policy. Now we just need a better president...
     
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  6. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    OMG that made me laugh. I sincerely hope you get one...one that likes Canada too :)
     
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  7. Lou
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    Lou Active Member

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    Probably going far off topic but ....

    Something that might be possible. Eliminate farm subsidies. Not sure about Canada but in the USA and the UK a combination of subsidies, and fill in the blank * , keep prices of meat and milk artificially low.

    Various Universtiy economists have tried to predict the "real cost" of milk and meat. From where I sit it doesn't seem like it would be so hard to do, but it must be harder than it looks because they rarely agree. I've seen projections for milk as low as $6/gal and as high as $16. And then some of the economists won't venture a guess. They say that the entire farm economy would collapse without subsidies.

    And what if we added external costs to the milk and meat. Like the cost of pollution, health care, and climate change. That milk is going to end up costing $250/gal.

    Then there is New Zealand. NZ is a special case. They have more cows and sheep than people. Most of their meat and milk are exported. but they did away with subsidies. Lots of initial upheavals but now they are fine. Not sure where their milk goes but some of their beef ends up here.

    Here in the US, ending subsidies would probably cause all the small family-owned farms to go out of business. and just leave us with the big corporations. Also not good.

    But I'm all for decreasing subsidies. Maybe according to a plan. As a nonmilk drinker, I just see it being unfair to use MY tax dollars to pay for cheaper milk.

    * senior moment. I can't think of the word. It's like a quota. When a farmer produces more milk than he is allowed he either has to pay a penalty or spill out the milk. It creates less supply so keeps the price up. In the UK and USA, during good years farmer is either paid to spill out their milk or kill their cows.
     
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  8. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    That is horrible! I had no idea farmers were paid to spill milk or kill cows if they produced too much milk. That's so sick. What an insane world we live in.

    Well, I think if factory farming were made illegal that would counteract the problem of being stuck with big corporations. I think making factory farming illegal is actually a very rational goal. Most people abhor the idea of factory farms, even those who cheerfully still feast upon the dead animals that come out of the places. You know, I am in school, so I converse with broke college students who are obviously eating the cheap factory farmed meat who still insist that "no one" likes factory farms. Some of the brighter of them aren't vegetarians but eschew meat on their grocery trips since their budget won't allow them to purchase anything except for the most brutal and unethical of flesh products. My point is, though, if this were proposed as something people could vote on ....say start on a state level....many, many people would vote to outlaw factory farms, and many of them wouldn't know the consequences will be MUCH MUCH more expensive meat and dairy, a lot of people just instinctively hate factory farming even when they pay the butchers themselves at the market and restaurant.

    I think the word might be "surplus" if I were to hazard a guess.
     
  9. Lou
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    Lou Active Member

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    Not surplus but that is a good guess. This is terrible. I still can't think of the word. Control or limit now come to mind. but i thought there was a more specific word.

    the original idea was to keep the price of food up so that farmers wouldn't go out of business. (this was back during the Depresson and the New Deal. and back then farmer's were going out of business left and right. Nowadays its totally gotten crazy with everything else. Farming is now big business with their own lobbyists and special interest groups.

    the cost of the subsidies are ridiculous. I'm going to look a few up...
    Holy $41+!!
    american dairy got something like 20 Billion in 2014.

    At first blush it looks like just getting rid of subsidies would help eliminate dariy farming. but I don't think Canada subsidies their dairy farmers.

    And it doesn't look like there are too many "direct subsidies" in the livestock sector. but their feed is heavily subsidized.
     
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