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The complain about irrational omnis thread

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Forest Nymph, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Forest Nymph
    Nerdy

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    So today I'm out in the field with other people who study environmental science (like, you know, people who should be at least a little objective about science in general) and one of my classmates starts speculating on why dogs can eat feces but humans don't. His first hypothesis was that humans are "brainwashed" but I pointed out that when we think something smells bad it protects us from eating poison or from eating spoiled food or anything toxic in general. Then I said, "also, dogs are carnivores so their stomach acids are more acidic..."

    Automatically, he cuts me off, and says "I'm not going to talk to you about this" and walks away.

    LOL WTF.

    I was actually in a pleasant mood and wasn't even trying to give a vegan lecture, I was just offering scientifically plausible answers to his question. He wouldn't even listen to a credible scientific explanation because I was offering it and he knows I'm a vegan. Well.

    Then I came here and looked around for a "gripe" thread and couldn't find one...so fellow forum members, please feel free to use this thread to post about similar gripes.
     
  2. Lou
    Mind-Blowing

    Lou Active Member

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    My sister's dog eats my sister's cat's poop. She says that her vet says that a cat's digestive system is not totally effective. That there is still nutrients in the cat's poop. and the dog smells them. Some dogs are a bit neurotic about food and will eat when not hungry or maybe they are just always hungry. So that happens.

    Anyway, I have no idea if that all is true or even partly true. Although I've seen for myself the dog eating cat poop. Even when it is still coated with kitty litter.

    I'm pretty sure you are right about our sense of smell protecting us from eating noxious things. ( I even recall dimly an article I read years ago that hypothesized that is the main function of our taste buds). I'm pretty sure you are right that dogs acidic stomach protect their system better than ours from spoiled food. But dogs, at least the domestic ones are always eating things they shouldn't and then throwing them back up again. I've even seen them sniffing and licking their vomit. It appears that they are thinking about eating it, too. I'm not sure what kind of survival tactic that is.

    These things might not be natural behaviors of dogs. Many of the dogs I have met are not well balanced. They are left alone too much, they are bored. they lack stimulation. Some dogs are neurotic with their relationship with food (like some people). Eating even when they are not hungry. or not know when to stop eating.

    Your "gripe" doesn't seem to have much to do with veganism. It's more of a gripe about close-minded people. Maybe there is some personal history with this person and you being a vegan.

    if pressed I could create an argument that all non-vegans are close-minded. If they were open-minded they would be vegan.

    There is a thread here somewhere about "pet hates". oh, I found it. and you have a post in it.
     
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  3. Forest Nymph
    Nerdy

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    I think you raise an excellent point about neurotic dogs who might have eating disorders or engage in other forms of self-mutilation via neurosis.

    I also respect your viewpoint that perhaps this individual is just like this, in general, and is simply closed-minded.

    However, I don't have an extensive or intense history with this person, other than us sharing a major. The one incident we had involving food or eating was on a trip to a conference when the vast majority of the students chose the vegetarian restaurant (many of my cohort are vegetarian for environmental reasons, even if they aren't vegan yet) and the only people who chose the restaurant who served meat were this person, one other male student, and the professor (a woman, if that matters, I'm just pointing out it wasn't necessarily related to gender).

    That's why I do think this is specifically about veganism. Someone studying science should be able to accept - somewhat neutrally - information like "carnivores have a lower pH and more acidic saliva and digestive fluids than omnivores or herbivores." NO ONE majoring in SCIENCE should be set off by such a factual observation, and I said it quite casually, not in the context of veganism.

    This makes me think that "vegan" is a hot button issue for this individual just as "climate change" or "global warming" is for many people who voted for Donald Trump. It's an irrational bias formed to reject factual information.

    The professor in question enables it though. She's even had social gatherings for our group where she says things like "there will be meat and vegetarian options but I don't know about other dietary needs" and she's really flippant about it. She eats meat, and it's obvious she's an ostrich about the facts on animal ag and its impact on the environment, I''m waiting until I graduate to report her extensively to the administration. She's the same person who told us to "be careful" when we talk about climate change in presentations to the public. She shouldn't even be in science department, she should be demoted to environmental studies or moved to elementary education.

    Haha...anyway.

    Do you really think all non-vegans are closed minded, or do you believe that it's simply an argument you could construct convincingly? I'm just curious about your thoughts.
     
  4. Lou
    Mind-Blowing

    Lou Active Member

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    Oh, I don't really think all non-vegans are close-minded. But I am generally an optimistic person and try not to judge others too harshly. At least not openly. Maybe I'm less optimistic than I think and more cowardly than I think. There are more of them than there are of us.

    I'm pretty sure I could create a convincing argument that all non-vegans are close-minded. or even worse. Irrational, illogical, idiotic. but let's be generous. some of them are just ignorant. (Why are all these "I words"?) But I try to be understanding. I was a carnist myself. for more than half my life. So I really shouldn't be throwing any stones.

    I think it's pretty radical that calling a dog a carnivore is a Hot Button. That's either a pretty big or sensitive hot button.
     
  5. Forest Nymph
    Nerdy

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    ...

    That's why I've created the thread. It was pretty bizarre that someone shut me down in a playful conversation that was supposed to be open to scientific questioning. It just came as kind of a shock to me - I am used to people "pushing back" if I'm being evangelical or directly challenging them or being aggressive about my views, that's expected. To have someone walk away from a non-related conversation just because I'm vegan really grates, like "oh hi, thanks for disregarding my opinion because I'm vegan/female/a Lana Del Rey fan..." lol...that's why it irritated me. It reminds me too much of battles with people who deny manmade climate change.
     
  6. Lou
    Mind-Blowing

    Lou Active Member

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    Ok, Got it.

    Nothing like that has happened to me. So I'm just going to sit back and watch.
     
  7. Forest Nymph
    Nerdy

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Hmm...that's cool, I see a lot of people complain about it on line, that their parents or in-laws are mean to them, or that their boyfriend tells them it's "not sexy" that they're vegan now, or that their co-workers are rude to them at lunch. I've seen stories where people thought it was funny to slip vegans meat in a shared dish or something similar. I used to think "wow I'm super lucky I live in California and these things don't usually happen to me, people in California accept vegans just like they accept halal for Muslims, or the expansion of people driving hybrid or electric cars because we accept different cultures and newer technology here."

    I can honestly say that the only time I ever experienced such a thing directly was today, but I feel it's indirectly perpetuated by environmentalists around me who don't want to accept the impacts of animal ag on climate change and deforestation, I never noticed it at all when I was just working and living in L.A. tbh except on the Internet.
     
  8. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member

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    So far the conflict has been fairly low. Some of it I find humorous.

    A guy I work with regularly examines my food (usually just what I have out, not my bag) and likes to make comments on it. Like I might have some sunflower seeds out, or some vegetables, and his comment is "So, on the starvation diet today eh"? LOL

    Same guy has informed me that Hitler was a vegan, or at least a Vegetarian. Hehe. I'm not knocking it, I just find it humorous that his reaction is to look for extremes. The other day he told me I'm not like the vegans he has seen in life or on media, which he is disgusted with.

    Same workplace, another person (an older man) seems openly disgusted by what I eat - even though we share the same table at lunch and I have never once commented on the dead animals and animal by products they are shoving into their mouths. So the other day some other workers were marveling at my lunch: Hummus, whole wheat bread, some salsa and vegetables - and this guy said "it's not doing him any good", to which I could only think to say "Well, I don't have any issues shi*tting every day!" - which got roaring laughter from someone else.
     

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