Vegetarians who eat dairy, is it wrong?

[MFornander]

Dairy products in themselves are not meat, obviously, yet the production of some dairy products and in particular milk have an inevitable meat by-product. In the case of milk it is a calf, most of these male calves are killed at birth or exported abroad where regulations are usually poor.

My question to you is; Do you think that it is wrong that vegetarians buy products that contribute to the unnecessary killing of animals?

If so, do you think it could become acceptable for vegetarians to eat veal because it would mean that they are reared in a welfare-friendly way in England and would be saving them from no life or a painful life?

 

[Second Summer]

My question to you is; Do you think that it is wrong that vegetarians buy products that contribute to the unnecessary killing of animals?

Vegetarians are generally opposed to killing animals. If everyone had that attitude, then we wouldn't have this problem.

If so, do you think it could become acceptable for vegetarians to eat veal because it would mean that they are reared in a welfare-friendly way in England and would be saving them from no life or a painful life?

Just a comment: you can't save an animal from not existing. That seems to be a logical fallacy.

 

[RascalsMom]

Is it wrong: yes

 

[MFornander]

Vegetarians tend to eat/drink dairy produce, surely otherwise they would class themselves as vegan? Therefore is it not ethical to think about the prospect of eating the by-product of a produce that you regularly eat/drink?
I see your point about logical fallacy but you can save an animal from a life in a very small crate in a foreign country with poor regulations and instead have them live a life in a welfare friendly pen filled with straw and other calves, surely that is an improvement that is worth considering?

 

[beancounter]

I see the potential for this thread to lead into a "vegans are better than vegetarians" argument....

 

[MFornander]

No not at all, I was just interested to see how people felt about it, regardless of whether you are vegan or vegetarian. All I am interested is how people view the by-product of dairy produce and the ethical dilema that comes with it.

 

[Second Summer]

Vegetarians tend to eat/drink dairy produce, surely otherwise they would class themselves as vegan? Therefore is it not ethical to think about the prospect of eating the by-product of a produce that you regularly eat/drink?

If they ate calves, obviously they wouldn't be much different from other meat-eaters. However, abstaining from meat is both a symbolic act (which has some value in itself), and a practical act that decreases the overall demand for meat. Less demand means production has to somehow decrease, which is obviously a good thing.

I see your point about logical fallacy but you can save an animal from a life in a very small crate in a foreign country with poor regulations and instead have them live a life in a welfare friendly pen filled with straw and other calves, surely that is an improvement that is worth considering?

Are you saying British vegetarians can help animals by giving up vegetarianism and start eating British-produced calves?

At this point I feel compelled to ask, and sorry for being so blunt, are you a vegetarian or vegan?

 

[MFornander]

No, I just am trying to understand how it can be morally acceptable to eat/drink dairy with the knowledge that as a result of doing so you are accepting that the by-product is inevitable and would be either killed or would suffer inhumane treatment abroad.

 

[RabbitLuvr]

If vegetarians (or anyone) had issues with drinking milk, surely they would stop drinking milk?

 

[SummerRain]

I think it's wrong for anybody to drink/eat dairy products unnecessarily. But I think framing the argument at vegetarians takes the focus away from the real issue though, the cruelty in the dairy industry, and shifts it towards criticising others.

Lots of vegetarians, for whatever reason, consume dairy (but not all, I was a vegetarian that didn't consume dairy for several years). Not all vegetarians are vegetarian for the same reasons I am vegan, lots of people are vegetarian for taste, health, religious or environmental reasons, and so may not have any problem with consuming dairy products at all.

 

[Second Summer]

No, I just am trying to understand how it can be morally acceptable to eat/drink dairy with the knowledge that as a result of doing so you are accepting that the by-product is inevitable and would be either killed or would suffer inhumane treatment abroad.

In all likelihood they aren't contributing significantly much more to that particular problem than they did before they became vegetarian, or more than the average meat eater.

I'm sorry to hear you're neither a vegetarian nor a vegan as that means I'm forced to terminate your account, as per the rules. Nevertheless, thank you for your interest in vegetarianism (and veganism?) - who knows, maybe one day you have a change of heart, and we can welcome you back to the forum?

 

[MFornander]

How do you know if I am not a vegan or vegetarian?

 

[RascalsMom]

Where did they say they ate meat? I could see this question coming from a vegan, actually - to point out how drinking milk is equivalent to eating veal.
I haven't seen the OP mention that they eat veal in either thread they've started.

 

[Blobbenstein]

How do you know if I am not a vegan or vegetarian?

well are you a vegetarian or vegan?

This forum allows people to stay if they aren't vegetarian or vegan, but want to become one.

 

[PTree15]

If they ate calves, obviously they wouldn't be much different from other meat-eaters. However, abstaining from meat is both a symbolic act (which has some value in itself), and a practical act that decreases the overall demand for meat. Less demand means production has to somehow decrease, which is obviously a good thing.


Are you saying British vegetarians can help animals by giving up vegetarianism and start eating British-produced calves?

At this point I feel compelled to ask, and sorry for being so blunt, are you a vegetarian or vegan?

How do you know if I am not a vegan or vegetarian?

Your answer to the above questions could be interpreted to apply to either or both questions.

 

[MFornander]

Oh I see I didnt see that you had asked me Indian Summer, I shouldnt be skim reading. No I am currently not either, I eat meat. However for me to consider changing that, I wanted to see how it can work to believe in the welfare of an animal to the point of not wanting to eat it but then still invest into an industry that leads to the death of hundreads of male calves. I just wanted to grasp how I could morally invest myself to think in that way but then go against it all at the same time . It just seems odd to me and I completely agree with RascalsMom, to me, drinking milk has just as big an effect on the calves as eating them would. I signed up on here to try and reach some clarity, to try and help me determine if I could make the change I really did not mean to start a debate

 

[Blobbenstein]

well you could transition to veganism. If you did that then you could avoid the inconsistent aspects of vegetarianism.

 

[MFornander]

Thank you all for giving me a clearer insight but I no longer wish to be part of this forum, can anyone guide me to where I terminate my account?

 

[RascalsMom]

I'm not sure why you need to ask others justifications of their own actions before you can make your own decision. If you agree that dairy is as awful as meat, why not dump both and go vegan?

 

[Spang]

If your milk is edible, it's probably time to throw it out. #gross