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Want to go to tel aviv

Discussion in 'Holidays & Travel' started by Forest Nymph, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Tel Aviv has been declared the "vegan capital of the world" and I have only left the U.S. to go to Canada, and would like to see more of the world.

    My fascination with the Torah's influence on Jewish veganism ("veganism is the new kosher") and interest in seeing a culture very different than my own (i.e. England wouldn't be different enough) affects my desire to go.

    Of course I wouldn't go right away, I am thinking of going for spring break or after graduation. I'm kind of apprehensive about going alone but it's not like I'd be backpacking the continent of Asia, I would literally just be going to Tel Aviv.

    Any advice would be appreciated.
     
  2. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member Banned

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    I think you may be disappointed. How many of the people there are Vegan and do (most/some?) of the current Jewish rabbis teach it? It is true that Torah (and prophets) do strongly indicate that eating animals is not in line with God’s intention for humans, but there are conflicting passages as well. Then there is the Talmud and traditions which many Jews follow including:

    Zeroa: A roasted lamb or goat bone, symbolizing the korban Pesach (Pesach sacrifice), which was a lamb offered in the Temple in Jerusalem and was then roasted and eaten as part of the meal on Seder night.

    Beitzah: A roast egg – usually a hard-boiled egg that has been roasted in a baking pan with a little oil, or with a lamb shank – symbolizing the korban chagigah (festival sacrifice) that was offered in the Temple in Jerusalem and was then eaten as part of the meal on Seder night.

    Are these not practiced in Tel Aviv during passover?
     
  3. hopeful
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    hopeful Active Member

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    Sounds like a cool trip! My wife has been there, and the food is good, she said! She is not vegan, but she has told me about vegan food there.
     
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  4. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    - Domino's offered its first vegan pizza in Israel.

    - Because 300,000 vegans live there.

    - There are 400 vegan restaurants/cafes/kitchens in Tel Aviv.

    - In 2017 Tel Aviv hosted the world's largest animal rights march (I watched it on video)

    - One of my friends at my old school was a very strict Jewish vegan and she told me about her travels in Israel

    - Vegetarianism, at least, has been a thing in some sects of Judaism for a while now. Reform Jews especially interpret the Torah as advocating vegetarianism/veganism, because of Kashrut, and passages in Genesis, Daniel, and Isaiah.

    - I had a non-religious Jewish vegetarian friend in L.A. who spoke extensively of the scholarly research into the Creation story depicting veganism, as well as evidence that Jesus was actually a vegetarian, from a third sect of Jews in his time (the dominant ones of course being Sadducees and Pharisees) called Nazarenes (thus "Jesus of Nazereth")

    I would expect to run into more controversy in Jerusalem especially with Orthodox or Hasidics, but apparently Tel Aviv is more liberal. As long as it was safe to travel there next year, I think it would be a good experience.
     
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  5. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Awesome! Thanks.
     
  6. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    I found a ten day tour of Israel that is for vegans, that includes both Tel Aviv and Jerusalem as well as other sites. I am requesting more information, but this may be the safest and most interesting way to experience my first trip to Israel. It really depends on how expensive the tour is and what is included. I also found an affordable lunch tour for vegans in Tel Aviv that would just be for one afternoon, but that's a thing, too.
     
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  7. veganDreama

    veganDreama Active Member

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    I wish you luck with your tour.

    My dad spent time in Isreal when he was a lot younger. I thought of going to Israel myself. I read so much about the place. A lot of which is not good at all like bulldozing a whole village including the school. There is also a lot of terrorist activity but not being their I don't know how it really is.
     
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  8. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Thanks. Yes I know there is some terrorist activity in parts of Israel due to the conflict with Palestine. Everywhere I want to go though (except Canada and maybe parts of Eastern Europe like the Czech Republic or Austria) is a country where terrorism occurs. If it would be safer and easier to go to Canada again (but to a different part) that's nice and all, but I was thinking something very different from my prior experiences.

    I could go to Eastern Europe but I would have a very difficult time finding vegan options there, it would be its own little struggle.

    Tel Aviv just appeals to me strongly because of being "the vegan capital of the world" I think that's cool. I'm also interested in visiting Turkey, but they too have become a dramatic focal point of terror activity.

    Tel Aviv is apparently much safer than other parts of Israel though. It's much more liberal, less religious, and geographically not as close to Gaza Strip/ Palestine as Jerusalem. Of course that's not saying much it's like going from one county to the next one over in my own state.

    It's just an idea. We'll see.
     
  9. Mhegan P

    Mhegan P New Member

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    Hi, check out Vegtravelbuddies - a free travel buddy website that connects vegan and vegetarian travelers. You can use it to find fellow veg travelers who are heading to the same destination around the same time as you and to connect and meet with veg locals too! :)
     
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  10. Jamie in Chile
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    Jamie in Chile Active Member

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    In Hollywood there were a lot of vegan places. Also Taipei. These are the places I've been to with most options since I embraced this lifestyle in the last few years.

    Taipei I had to know in advance where to go, in Hollywood I actually stumbled across 100% vegan places completely by accident several times - only place that's happened. I'd estimate there are more vegan places in Hollywood than the whole of Chile, the country where I live.

    I think we are kidding ourselves if we hope to discover some vegan utopia. Veganism will be a minority everywhere, of course.

    If you are going to Eastern Europe you could consider Berlin. Do some research on its vegan scene and it has, like Taipei, a vegan supermarket which opened a few years ago which I assume is still open.
     
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  11. Jamie in Chile
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    Jamie in Chile Active Member

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    That all matches what I've heard/read. Also, Tel Aviv was built in the desert, it wasn't build on top of a destroyed Palestinian town (there were some smaller settlements in the area before) and it's not in the occupied territories, so there is arguably less of an ethical issue with visiting it than some other parts of Israel or especially occupied West Bank.

    Also, Tel Aviv citizens tend to not vote for the right wing, peace-avoiding governments that are trying to avoid a 2-state peace deal, and tend to support more peace leaning, left wing governments.

    Personally if I visited Israel/Palestine I think I'd want to economically support the Palestinians also, visiting and staying in the West Bank. (Maybe even Gaza, if that's viable). I'd want to visit and economically support both Jews and Palestinians and get a variety of views.

    I think in practice Israel is relatively safe for a short visit. You see a lot on the news but the suicide bombings in cities like Tel Aviv have reduced a lot in recent years, possibly due to the wall building. I mean, it must be easy for Israelis to see hurricanes or tornados in the US, or riots in London, and think those are dangerous places. You'll probably be fine.

    I do NOT include Gaza and its immediate surroundings in this 'safe' assessment though. That may be different. That's the area that has made the news this year with violence.

    I'd love to visit Israel, Palestine/Palestinians territories/West Bank/Gaza), and then travel on to the rest of the middle East. Not sure if I ever will though.
     
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  12. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Yeah I lived in LA for nearly 8 years, a city people unfortunately equate with smog (significantly less than before the 90s) and gang bangers (I can honestly say I've walked through Compton without a scratch on more than one occasion, and stayed with an African American friend in Inglewood for months...an actual adult Asian man approached me once and asked me if the neighborhood was "safe" and I was completely taken aback, it was a very cute suburban part of Inglewood with historic apartments and houses from the 20s-60s and lived in one of the 1950s apartment buildings which was the height of LA architecture with my black friend) ...I also have lived among Latinos in the Valley (something you probably find offensive being from Chile) as a minority white person. I was always totally fine being a white minority in LA.

    I know terrorist bombing is a much different phenom than people being scared of neighborhoods but honestly I think parts of France are more dangerous than Tel Aviv and I sincerely mean that.
     
  13. Jamie in Chile
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    Jamie in Chile Active Member

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    I am not from Chile, although I live here, I am British. I am not sure why your comment would be offensive?

    Funny how experiences differ - I was walking through Hollywood with my wife and kids and there was a full-on fist fight on our first day in the country about 20 yards from us. I have never seen anything like that in years in Chile.

    We found LA pretty sketchy. We saw a lot of strange characters, there was a guy walking around the metro deliberately playing absurdly loud music in an obvious attempt to provoke a fight with someone, and someone preaching that type of angry religious hate very loudly until security came and removed him, we also a lot of people who appear to have been let's say let down by the system, homeless people perhaps or beggars and some of them were aggressive and would just shout out loudly to themselves or anyone.

    In Fresno a homeless person was climbing over a fence angrily apparently in an attempt to break into a park that was fenced off to get a place to sleep, a second person walked on by aggressively and angrily shouting to themselves while a third person walked by throwing rubbish on the floor and even picking up other rubbish to try and scatter it more. All those three people came by in the space of about 5 minutes.

    Do you mean the central valley with the agriculture? We stayed overnight in Bakersfield on our way to/from Yosemite. The hotels are a lot better value there so it makes sense, and it's nice to travel a bit slower with children.

    Because California is usually blue democrat state, people can have a simple opinion of it. However it seems in practice the Democrats win it because people in silicon valley, LA and San Francisco and surrounds are liberal, the rest of the state seems to be more of a variety of opinions including more conservative.
     
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  14. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Yeah all of that is in L.A. at least in parts. I had a friend from Russia who said he'd never seen so many lonely people talking to themselves on the street, he was convinced they just needed someone to care for them and I must say he wasn't entirely off in this assessment .

    No I mean the San Fernando Valley, San Fernando proper and Mission Hills are now about 97 percent Latino where as in the 1970s it was about 80 percent white. Though I have been in the Central Valley agricultural area too, though briefly.

    You are right there are a lot of weird conservative patches in California, but the liberal spots aren't just the big cities. In some ways the county I live in is more uniformly liberal than L.A. which is a bizarre mix of extreme liberal values but a strange thread of conservative economics keeping the divide between the rich and poor enormous. A beautiful symbol of this was the Skirball Fire last year when an encampment of homeless people accidentally burned down a neighborhood full of millionaire's mansions. After I got over the initial worry, I cheered over that fire, it did prompt the city to say whoops maybe we should do something about our homeless.

    One of the reasons I left L.A. is that even in the time in which I lived there it kept getting more and more gentrified and expensive to live. It happened quickly and it's largely because of overseas developers being allowed to build with relative impunity to local peril.
     
  15. Jamie in Chile
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    Jamie in Chile Active Member

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    I had a drive around Bel Air once out of curiosity when I was passing through, I thought it would be flat open wide streets, somehow I got that impression from watching Fresh Prince years ago, but it's actually all these windy hilly streets with guards and mansions hidden behind greenery/hedges.

    I suppose Jeff Bezos and Zuckerberg are in California, and other tech giants, that are symbols of the excesses of capitalism. Zuckerberg, in something of an irony when we consider Facebook privacy issues, bought a house then bought each of the houses to the 4 sides of that house and ordered smaller houses built just to make sure no-one could see into his property. Oh the irony!

    I must have passed through the San Fernando valley you mention driving from LA to Yosemite, and seen it from the side of the freeway, but we didn't stop. We spoke Spanish to people all around.

    I did have an idea that California would be a cool place to live. Driving around in Lyfts and watching people with those Apple wireless headbuds (more people that seem to be talking to themselves in the street) it feels kind of ahead of the curve not just technologically but also ethically with the more vegan options and your electricity being greener.

    But actually I was surprised that California isn't really green at all. LA's public transport is pretty weak, and in the rest of the state you rarely see a bus. Electric cars are so few I didn't quite manage to rent one. There is no true understanding or practice of sustainable values among the people. Some of the hotels we stayed in had throwaway polystyrene and practice at the breakfast. At least you have the option there to live ethically if you want, but most people usually don't just like any place.

    But when you factor in the cost of housing we wouldn't live there unless someone offered a huge salary because I wouldn't want to take a big step back in our standard of living.
     
  16. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Well California is a big state. In fact economically it's technically the 11th wealthiest *country* in the world, which is why some people have suggested just removing ourselves from the United States. In theory that sounds wonderful, it reality it would probably be violent.

    So. Here are some good eco things about California:

    - plastic bag ban at major stores and companies (they can suggest but not enforce to small business)
    - tons of innovation towards renewable energy
    - plentiful organic, vegetarian and vegan options
    - trains that run up and down the state from city to city
    - hybrid or electric powered buses in most major cities
    - automatic recycling and compost collection with garbage in many parts of California

    L.A. is kind of a bipolar place. I had a really profound love-hate relationship with Los Angeles, and I still miss it sometimes. L.A. actually has improved its public transportation dramatically, adding subway and train lines, and setting up chargers for electric cars in the downtown area. I remember taking a photo of the very first electric car charger I saw publicly at Wilshire and Western a couple of years ago. L.A. battles with its wealthy, they're a bunch of NIMBYs who shoot down a lot of projects planned for public transportation and the homeless. However, rooftop gardening and urban community gardening is a thing in Los Angeles, and many of the homeless support themselves by recycling. In Reseda, a suburb of L.A., a vegan school exists for troubled teens who nurture rescued animals and grow some of their own food at the school as therapy. As you noticed, vegan restaurants, clothing and other options are everywhere. Huge clean-up projects and laws in the past 40 years have drastically improved air quality and coastal ocean quality. I used to volunteer for a program that teaches elementary school children from all over LA Unified school district (including the horrible neighborhoods) an outdoor hiking experience where they get basic local ecology and basic environmental science. Right now the Liberty Canyon Wildlife Corridor project is underway to build a land-bridge for wildlife like mountain lions to protect them from the freeways. Did you go to Griffith Park? It's a genuine urban wilderness, over 4000 acres.

    So I think your impressions might be limited to what you may have saw in the Hollywood area or in the time period you visited. But yes it's bipolar, its imperfect, I had to leave because the very city that nurtures all of this progress is also a city filled with corporate greed, styrofoam packaged take-out, steak houses, overpriced theme parks, increasingly expensive housing and fast food. L.A. is kind of unique in its influence on American culture, L.A. shaped a lot of what people hate about the United States back in the 50s and 60s, with all of the freeways and cars, and shopping malls, and hamburger stands and snooty rich people. It's a balance between the history of L.A. and its future, and the history of L.A. is haunting. I believe the place is haunted. There are ghosts there so attached to their life on earth that they won't let go of that city. No matter whether you believe this is my crazy fantasy or a possibility, logically we're dealing with one of the world's largest cities that has a reputation for being extremely liberal but also extremely greedy and capitalist.

    I like where I live now. We're pretty green here. We don't have some of the perks of L.A. we've only got the one completely vegetarian restaurant and a vegan food truck, but most of our restaurants have vegan options and we have a very eco-minded town thanks to the university I attend and their environmental science programs, and the fact that Redwood Summer happened just north of here 25 years ago. In fact corporations are outlawed in certain zones in my town, there's like this one ugly bit over by the saw mills, and the city just put a halt to any new development that wasn't local or small business.
     
  17. Jamie in Chile
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    Jamie in Chile Active Member

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    I went to a restaurant yesterday (I'm back in Chile now) and I heard it had vegan options, and it actually had a separate menu with only the vegan options. I think this is a much under used idea that we need to see more of, since usually I have to rapid scan the whole menu of 35 options to find the 3 vegan options. I think that may be the first time I've seen that.

    I could have gone to Griffith Park easily, since we staying in Hollywood, and on the East Side, but my wife and kids decided they didn't fancy it.

    We also did go to Disneyland, which you'd presumably count as the overpriced theme parks. It was fairly crowded even when we went on school days. So if the prices were cheaper more people would go and it would be total chaos. Disneyland incidentally is poor for vegans, but there are good vegetarian options, so if you want vegan you just have to ask for things without cheese. A good thing about the US for vegans is that as a country they are quite accepting of adjusting the food from how it as specified on the menu compared to some other countries, although I don't know if tourists will realise this. Disneyland was probably the part of the holiday that the kids enjoyed the most but also the most expensive. There are a lot of adults without kids in theme parks, even in attractions like queing up for photos with Mickey Mouse. It doesn't seem to me like a good value for money place for only adults.

    Actually the whole of California was expensive. We smashed our budget.
     
  18. Jamie in Chile
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    Jamie in Chile Active Member

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    - plastic bag ban at major stores and companies (they can suggest but not enforce to small business)
    Yeah but everywhere's doing this now. I even saw a plastic bag ban sign at a small grocery store here in Chile in an average barrio in a nothing part of town.

    - tons of innovation towards renewable energy
    Good point. I think California is way ahead of most of the US in this regard, and even ahead of Europe.

    - plentiful organic, vegetarian and vegan options
    Again true, I think California is a leader in this.

    - trains that run up and down the state from city to city
    Wasn't really aware of this. However I strongly suspect if you actually compared the % of car miles to public transport miles in California it would still be much more to cars compared to most places outside the US.

    - hybrid or electric powered buses in most major cities
    That's good.

    - automatic recycling and compost collection with garbage in many parts of California
    I was disappointed with the recycling that I saw in California. There is a lot of different stuff being mixed in the same trash can. I think the recycling efforts are weak compared to European standards - unless there is a lot of stuff being sorted out after the fact. That may be possible. I found one guy sorting through trash that people had mixed up because he can get money from the recycling centre. However I'm not sure how common this is. Most places I saw (hotels, theme parks, restaurants etc) seem to either have 1 trash can for everything or at most 2 with one for all recyclables combined. I have about 10 different boxes in my house.

    Every $ has a certain amount of environmental bad attached to it. California is very rich. Therefore, if you earn $150,000 per year but are vegan and have an electric car your carbon emissions are likely higher than someone who earns $30,000 a year but doesn't do anything for the environment.

    On a basis of environmental bad per $ spent, California is ahead of other places but that says more about the failure of other places.
     
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  19. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Well I'm sorry to hear that. I love Griffith Park. I plan to go back to L.A. for a week or so (I wish I could do it this fall, I love L.A. in the fall but because of money it will probably be winter or early spring) and stay in Los Feliz and do all of the Downtown L.A. haunts and Griffith Park. If I was super wealthy or just on an extravagant vacation I'd stay at the Roosevelt. They are historic from the 1930s, Marilyn Monroe once lived there, it's said to be haunted and their cafe has really awesome vegan options (I used to eat there late at night when I finished working).

    I think it's weird that adults go to Disneyland. They probably think it's weird I like hanging around the old Max Factor building and going to the Hollywood Museum of Death, to each their own, but Disney is such a corporate entity blech.
     
  20. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Yes the garbage companies sort it out. When you see things mixed in L.A. they get sorted out, it's just at people's private homes there are separate cans. L.A. has recycling facilities some smaller CA towns don't have, like for example recycling Tetrapaks (those things soy milk come in). Also the homeless in LA are little treasures in the way they recycle, I think it's rather evil that the city "makes" them but also "helps" them this way, you can have a part-time job in the state of California recycling. When I worked at a rural campground, I made money part-time recycling the waste from the campground, in Los Angeles people push around shopping carts full of bottles.

    I agree with you about people with $150,000 a year driving electric cars still having a larger carbon footprint, but what about the many of us who make less than $50,000 (I currently make less than $20,000 because of school but once made around 40-50,000 in L.A.) and walk or bike and take public transportation, and are vegan or vegetarian and recycle. We matter too. As for the disproportionately wealthy, I'd rather see them be vegans in hybrid cars than dining on steak and driving SUVs, I'll take what I can get.
     

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