#Wfpb is defined as anti-oil,anti-protein,anti-nut quackery

[Second Summer]

Seen on Twitter:

Controversial opinions

⦾ I don't mind if the whole-food plant-based movement dies.

⦾ Let's develop a science-based healthy #animalfree movement.

⦾ Eating plants = healthy. Yes, but this is a platitude.

⦾ #Wfpb is defined by anti-oil, anti-protein, anti-nut quackery.

Please discuss!

 

[Lou]

I think the thing is that some people ( I find this most prevalent in the very young people - espcially now) is that they can get carried away.

Some of the vegans I meet IRL are what I call fussy vegans. They are so vegan they drive the people around them away from veganism. There used to be an article by Pete Singer on the internet about this. It was titles Vegan purity vs Effective Advocacy. It made a big impression on me at the time. At the time I was a fussy vegan.

I have no evidence to support this but I think sometimes fussy vegans even drive themselves out. Being a fussy vegan is hard.

I think I can see parallels with the WFPB diet. Its hard to do. on the other hand to be Almost WFPB isn't so hard. Aristotle was right. All things in moderation.

For a while I was almost 100% WFPB. but I am now maybe 90%. Maybe I'm not getting the full benefit of the diet but I'm happier now.

Oh! and "⦾ #Wfpb is defined by anti-oil, anti-protein, anti-nut quackery" is a misrepresentation of WFPB. It is not anti- protein or anti- oil. But the guy forgot anti-sugar and anti-salt.

 

[silva]

WFPB doesn't imply vegan
Vegan doesn't imply WFPB
That's the one area I wish people would respect.
You can either/or, or both, but saying one should not indicate the other

I have absolute belief in following a wfpb no oil, no sugar, and i'm not too sure of salt. I've known people to follow Dr Esselstyns diet and have reversal of heart disease that they've been told could not be done. There are probably more groups in my area that follow this way for health benefits than there are vegan groups.
A plant based diet that is simply mostly wfpb should not be seen as equal to one that is strict. Complete adherence is needed for results

I dislike when people mix these up. If you say you're vegan there is no reason to be held to healthy standards
If you say your wfpb you're not a hypocrite for wearing leather

 

[silva]

Eating plants = healthy. Yes, but this is a platitude.
I don't understand what is meant by that?

 

[Lou]

Remember what I was saying about Fussy Vegans?

Vegan woman sparks controversy with ‘difficult’ issue at family dinner: ‘She had to go home hungry’

The woman didn't approve of anything the family had to offer.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Strugglepuss]

I'm also focused on WFPB, but as my non de plume suggests, am far from perfect. I think I'd have to live in a WFPB commune staffed with great chefs to pull off the diet perfectly (I'd be willing to do the dishes). I have a lot of respect for those who can do it 100%, same with true veganism, though I sometimes wonder if such purity (instead of a relaxed balance), is a reaction to our declining environment, trying to make amends to save ourselves. Nature doesn't promote purity, just balance. Purity feels like an attempt to be above nature, to be a spiritual god if you will. More power to those who can do it, as it is needed to counter all the abuse by others, but the world would be a far better place if we were collectively focused on living in balance with nature.

 

[Strugglepuss]

After thinking about, and then re-reading my last post, I believe it could be misinterpreted as saying veganism wouldn't be needed if the world was focused on balance, which was not my point. Basically I was attempting to say that if humankind had always been focused on living in balance with nature, which would include veganism and/or a WFPB diet, the world would be in much better shape. Plus I suck at this diet, thus I would be better off if I could live in a commune where others did the cooking.

 

[silva]

Remember what I was saying about Fussy Vegans?

Vegan woman sparks controversy with ‘difficult’ issue at family dinner: ‘She had to go home hungry’

The woman didn't approve of anything the family had to offer.

www.yahoo.com

No, that is an eating disorder
It should have been clear that she was wfpb with no oil or processed foods
It's no different than if she said she was celiac, but left out that she was also Kosher!
This is a personal problem not related to being vegan

 

[Tom L.]

I think the thing is that some people ( I find this most prevalent in the very young people - espcially now) is that they can get carried away.

Some of the vegans I meet IRL are what I call fussy vegans. They are so vegan they drive the people around them away from veganism. There used to be an article by Pete Singer on the internet about this. It was titles Vegan purity vs Effective Advocacy. It made a big impression on me at the time. At the time I was a fussy vegan.

I have no evidence to support this but I think sometimes fussy vegans even drive themselves out. Being a fussy vegan is hard.

I can imagine that being overly obsessed about diet (or almost anything else) could wear someone down, and they might just give up trying to be vegan or vegetarian (or even pescatarian- which is what I was when I first stopped eating meat at the age of 16). I distinctly remember that I originally expected to be a contented pescatarian for the rest of my life. The fishes in my aquarium convinced me otherwise- but it took 4 years for that to happen.

I can't help thinking that the problem is not that a new vegan has too much enthusiasm at the beginning, but that they don't have staying power. Someone could plunge into veganism, find it more difficult than they had expected, and go back to omni- and I know many do. But if they have the right combination of lasting passion and realism, they won't give up completely. They'll make a new attempt- maybe going easy on themselves, starting by being vegan except for one meal a day, or by being vegan on weekends. Maybe they'll resolve to only eat non-vegan food if it's still completely edible and wholesome, but is about to be thrown out and wasted anyway. Maybe they'll wind up making several such attempts.

 

[Mufflon]

I still think WFPB is a sensible way to eat so I think the movement should continue spreading their message. (Don't let it die, please. lol)

However, the WFPB-movement has gone a little bit too far as so many movements, including the vegan one, when it comes to "raising the bar", or so it seems because people tend to only see and hear the screeching zealots and "warriors".
In fact I can't think of any "movement" right now that doesn't make me want to roll my eyes at least a little bit and think "Can we please take it down a notch, ok?" - and I know quite a few people who're in general agree with the purpose of many "movements" but are driven away from it at the same time up tp a certain degree because things seem to be blown out of proportion too many times and/or you're "obviously not being able to do anything right anyway".

Talking with your vegan coworker about how you cooked a vegan meal and used a certain substitute and getting berated for "not boycotting this evil company that sells this substitute".

Going by bike to work 90% of the time but for sure you can find someone pointing the finger at you for not biking to work 100% of the time.

Make a comment about whatever on the web and depending on the bubble you're posting in, you can be 100% sure there is someone labelling your comment as either chauvinist/rascist/ableist/fatphobic/transphobic/homophobic/whatever-ist/phobic.

Too much gatekeeping in practically all movements and it seems like nothing is "good enough" or "perfect enough", leaving too many people frustrated and with a WTH?? expression on their faces, driving them away instead of pulling them nearer.

That being said during the last years I have the growing impression that some members of the vegan community aren't really interested in veganism becoming mainstream. They want vegans to think in and be a certain way when it comes to religion, politics and culture and can't imagine "sharing" the label "vegan" with people who're not the way they want them to be and I'm not alone with this impression as it seems.

I have mulled this around in my head and tried to get an idea of an answer to why the vegan community seems to be getting more and more "split". Maybe the vegan community is now around long enough to have older members who changed the way they view the world over the years? I remember when being younger "good" and "bad" seemed so easy to distinguish. Now not so much.

 

[Veganite]

I have mulled this around in my head and tried to get an idea of an answer to why the vegan community seems to be getting more and more "split".

My guess is that it's because the vegan community has grown so much in the past decade. That would also explain all the new plant-based products flying off the shelves these days or the demand for them.. So with such diversity within the community, itself, it can no longer be painted with one broad brush as such. I think that is why we're seeing such a "split".

*

 

[shyvas]

My guess is that it's because the vegan community has grown so much in the past decade. That would also explain all the new plant-based products flying off the shelves these days or the demand for them.. So with such diversity within the community, itself, it can no longer be painted with one broad brush as such. I think that is why we're seeing such a "split".

*

According to statistics, it's because there are more and more flexitarians,not vegans. Moreover, lots of people do meatless Mondays.

2020: The Year of the Flexitarian

www.sustainalytics.com

 

[Veganite]

According to statistics, it's because there are more and more flexitarians,not vegans. Moreover, lots of people do meatless Mondays.

That could very well be, and while that might explain why the plant-based products are flying off the shelves, it doesn't explain why vegans are so divided.

*

 

[shyvas]

That could very well be, and while that might explain why the plant-based products are flying off the shelves, it doesn't explain why vegans are so divided.

*

Because they are just like other people.

 

[Veganite]

Because they are just like other people.

Yes, we are all so alike

 

[Lou]

Too much gatekeeping in practically all movements and it seems like nothing is "good enough" or "perfect enough", leaving too many people frustrated and with a WTH?? expression on their faces, driving them away instead of pulling them nearer.

I think most of what you said can be put into this bucket. I call it the fussy began. or maybe its just personal purity.

That being said during the last years I have the growing impression that some members of the vegan community aren't really interested in veganism becoming mainstream.

Maybe mainstream but I think lots of us old timers don't like it becoming so commercialized. Actually I love all the new products and how accesible they are. but I don't have any good feelings about Big Food getting so embedded. There are lots of advantages when big food does get involved but I still see vegan meals as something you make at home out of "raw materials" as opposed to buying it in the frozen food section.

But generally speaking I'm for more products and more availability.

I have mulled this around in my head and tried to get an idea of an answer to why the vegan community seems to be getting more and more "split". Maybe the vegan community is now around long enough to have older members who changed the way they view the world over the years? I remember when being younger "good" and "bad" seemed so easy to distinguish. Now not so much.

I think its always been split. or maybe not split but perhaps a spectrum. and also there are various vegan adjacent concepts from boycotting palm oil, eschewing GMO cotton, and embracing minimalism that make vegans more diverse.

 

[Tom L.]

.....Maybe mainstream but I think lots of us old timers don't like it becoming so commercialized. Actually I love all the new products and how accesible they are. but I don't have any good feelings about Big Food getting so embedded. There are lots of advantages when big food does get involved but I still see vegan meals as something you make at home out of "raw materials" as opposed to buying it in the frozen food section.

(bold/italic emphasis mine). Yep. I remember, within the past few years, the company that makes "Just Mayo" (I think it was them) ran afoul of the Hellman's company, which makes Hellman's Real Mayonnaise... something about how you can't call something "mayonnaise" if it doesn't include egg. As I recall, Hellman's lost that battle.

I recently noticed Hellman's is now marketing something they call a "VEGAN Spread". Granted, Hellman's now seems to have about a half-dozen different kinds of mayonnaise-like condiments these days. But are they really responsive to consumer desires, or are they just out to squash any competition? I'll admit that Hellman's was always my favorite mayonnaise; I tried "Miracle Whip" long ago and it just didn't do it for me. I did get a small jar of the vegan Hellman's spread (thinking about that now, I shouldn't have), and it is good- but from now on I'll stick to "Just Mayo" on principle. It's more expensive and not as commonly available in stores, but it's worth it.

 

[silva]

I get FYH vegenaise now, but I always look at the shelves. No vegan mayos here for some time--all the other Hellmans varieties, no Just, maybe Sir Kensington-whatever that is!

 

[Mufflon]

I'm lucky that the local Kaufland and some Edekas have Hellman's vegan mayo in stock. Compared to other vegan mayos available in Germany I like it best.