Read all: What's happening in Syria is an abomination (Stephen Hawking in a letter to theguardian.com, 17 February 2014)
This letter has been published in multiple newspapers recently.
Thoughts?
What's happening in Syria is an abomination
- Thread starter Second Summer
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This letter has been published in multiple newspapers recently.
Thoughts?
Syria is mess that has no good answers. The world has no stomach to do what would be necessary to take out Assad, both because of the cost in terms of lives and money, and also because what is likely to fill the vacuum doesn't look a whole lot better, if better at all.
As an aside - I gather the only people who think that Stephen Hawking is a great mind are laypeople; people in his own field don't rank him at all, and view him as someone who became well known not because he is great or even good in his field, but because of the tremendous physical odds against which he has to struggle on a daily basis.
As an aside - I gather the only people who think that Stephen Hawking is a great mind are laypeople; people in his own field don't rank him at all, and view him as someone who became well known not because he is great or even good in his field, but because of the tremendous physical odds against which he has to struggle on a daily basis.
Freesia
not my business.
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Even if Assad was taken out, the country would still be in civil war. It is a case of Shiite vs Sunni and both the government forces and rebel forces are armed, with innocent people caught in the middle. The only hope of any good outcome is negotiation between the 2 sides.
OP
OP
Indeed, Assad's replacement would most likely be a radical islamist. I'm not sure how horrible Assad was before the civil war started, compared to other regimes in the Middle East. I'm sure there were ones that had better human rights credentials (e.g. maybe Jordan, Lebanon), but I suspect the Assad regime wasn't the worst either.
There are more than two sides - Sunni, Shiite / regime supporters, pro-democracy supporters, Al-Nusra, ISIS (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant) who have been disavowed by Al-Qaeda because they were too radical .... and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone. And of course, not to forget, their outside supporters: The US, Saudi Arabia, other Gulf states, Iran, Hizbollah, Russia, and others. Negotiations would have to include all of these, although it's not a requirement for increased stability and security (a.k.a. "peace") that they all come to an agreement.
ledboots
Peace
Yes, it has, the fruit is bitter.
I just hope fervently that the US stays away. We would try to help and wind up pissing everyone off and leaving things worse than they were when we began.
OP
OP
The US has been supplying weapons and intel to some of the groups for some time now, I think.
I think Hawking is right in appealing for the international community to consider the plight of the refugees and civilians. This is a massive number, and as the war drags on without any decisive victories, it's just not rational to continue. Outside forces will ensure that their sides / groups in the war won't be defeated or run out of ammo. So unless they agree on a ceasefire (the rational thing to do) the war will continue, slowly transforming a once relatively well-organised society into a pile of rubble.
Maybe the Syrians need to be reminded of who is their sworn, common enemy. At least that should be something they can all agree on.
ledboots
Peace
OP
OP
No. It's about perspective. Maybe if they took a step back to catch their breath, they would realise that their own internal differences are peanuts compared to the disagreement they have with the Jewish state that occupies part of their territory. If they want that territory back and/or keep Israeli aggression at bay, they need to be strong. The civil war is making them weak.
ledboots
Peace
yakherder
老外
He was a piece of crap (that's my official description). But... He was comparatively secular in the way he ran the government, rational, and predictable. Power hungry leaders are easier to manage (it's typically obvious where their strings are and how to pull them). Religious fruitcake leaders, not so much.
I'm not moved. Every British involvement in the Middle East has been disastrous, so we should steer well clear. The Arabs are more than happy to unify against us when it suits them (oil embargos spring to mind) so let them sort their own problems out. There is certainly enough wealth in the Arab world (Saudi and the Gulf States) that they don't need to come knocking on our door.
When Iraq invaded Kuwait, more than 30 countries got involved. When Rwanda went through genocide, the world looked the other way. When Libya had problems, I think 17 countries got involved. When Syria has problems, the world looks the other way(or extends the war, as some writers on Counterpunch.org have claimed). Makes a lot of sense.
If you're claiming that Western governments care for civilian populations, I have no idea what to say.
Unlike you, I do have an idea of what to say, but I will refrain because I'm trying to comply with board rules.
Assuming you were being serious, you must think much, much higher of Western governments than I do. Could you give this great explanation for why these loving governments chose not to intervene in Rwanda when 500-900,000 people were being murdered?
I think you should reread the post of mine you quoted. It doesn't say what you seem to think it says.
OP
OP
Resurrecting this thread as there is renewed pressure for a political/diplomatic solution.
Apparently, the US supported and trained moderate rebel group has collapsed. Islamic State has attacked Turkish towns on the border, so Turkey has been forced to take active action against them, instead of continuing to quietly accept them.
Iran is also attempting to work out a peace plan:
I think the plan needs to include Assad's resignation in order for the Sunni states to accept it. The article says something about elections, but not clear if it means presidential elections.
More: Diplomatic efforts pushed to fore in Syrian conflict (5. August 2015)
Apparently, the US supported and trained moderate rebel group has collapsed. Islamic State has attacked Turkish towns on the border, so Turkey has been forced to take active action against them, instead of continuing to quietly accept them.
Iran is also attempting to work out a peace plan:
More: Iran to present Syria peace plan to United Nations| World| Reuters (5. August 2015)
I think the plan needs to include Assad's resignation in order for the Sunni states to accept it. The article says something about elections, but not clear if it means presidential elections.