Are 'free range' eggs really free range.

[madjock2010]

That wasn't a question Jock. It was a simple statement of fact.

It can only be a statement of fact If it is a fact.

If you don't actually know me or my friends, have visited her land, or know anything about her, then it is merely conjecture and not fact.

You are assuming ' she has chickens therefore must be like (insert appropriate mass killing company)

 

[Andy_T]

I have never claimed to be vegan, but in actual fact vegetarian. Of which there is a difference.

Then I apologize for mistaking you.

As was pointed out, "free range" eggs coming from a commercial venture are normally not noticeably better than "normal" eggs. Your neighbour's eggs possibly are.

Still, there are many who hold the opinion that even consuming eggs from rescued chickens puts a lot of strain on the chicken, and those eggs should rather be fed back to the chicken (by breaking the shell) to ensure the long-term health of the chicken. And, of course, the question seems valid whether your neighbour really intends to keep the chickens even if they are old and no longer produce eggs. Good if he does.

 

[madjock2010]

Thank you for your apology and advice

 

[Clueless Git]

It can only be a statement of fact If it is a fact.

If you don't actually know me or my friends, have visited her land, or know anything about her, then it is merely conjecture and not fact.

You are assuming ' she has chickens therefore must be like (insert appropriate mass killing company)

The assumption was that your freind, as you said, wouldn't kill her chickens, Jock.

The fact is that with a no cull policy all the chickens she has space for will, at some point in time, be past egg laying age.

 

[Clueless Git]

you'll have to excuse Clueless git.....he sometimes escapes from the vegan forum, and it's a heck of a job getting him back in.

I'm 'free range', Blobbers.

 

[flyingsnail]

You act like my friends will slaughter their hens when they stop producing eggs. You know nothing about them out me.
.

Many vegans seem unfamiliar with the fact that many people keep hens as pets and that hens pretty much continue to lay eggs until they die (though they do lay less as they age). A family with a few hens of varying ages can have plenty of eggs and will never have "a whole a lot of chickens and no eggs".

 

[Andy_T]

Many vegans seem unfamiliar with the fact that many people keep hens as pets and that hens pretty much continue to lay eggs until they die (though they do lay less as they age). A family with a few hens of varying ages can have plenty of eggs and will never have "a whole a lot of chickens and no eggs".

See my above comment....

Still, there are many who hold the opinion that even consuming eggs from rescued chickens puts a lot of strain on the chicken, and those eggs should rather be fed back to the chicken (by breaking the shell) to ensure the long-term health of the chicken.

 

[flyingsnail]

The fact is that with a no cull policy all the chickens she has space for will, at some point in time, be past egg laying age.

Except, of course, that hens never stop laying eggs....they just lay less as they age. Hens will, in backyard terms, be very productive for a good 5~7 years but still still lay after that. The average life expectancy is around 8~9 years.

 

[flyingsnail]

See my above comment....

Yes, I've heard people cite that opinion before....but it has little basis in reality. Hens don't benefit from eating their eggs when they are properly fed and it should be obvious that eating their very means of reproducing isn't a requirement for their health.

I'm always surprised how little vegans, at least many of them, seem to know about hens despite being so vehemently against people eating the eggs of their pet hens.

 

[Andy_T]

... and it should be obvious that eating their very means of reproducing isn't a requirement for their health.

It should be similarly "obvious" that they should not reproduce once per day

One major difference between what is affectionately called "laying hens" and the wild form of chickens is that "laying hens" have been engineered to have an enormous amount of potential offspring, hence rapidly damaging the health of the hen. It takes a lot of substance from the hen, especially calcium, to produce on egg per day.

 

[flyingsnail]

It should be similarly "obvious" that they should not reproduce once per day

Laying an egg isn't the same as giving birth, many eggs end up as duds. Domestic hens certainly lay more eggs than their wild counter-part, but even in the wild they lay a lot of eggs. Now if one is against the domestication of animals, well okay, but that is going to extend to any pet. Selectively breeding hens to lay more eggs isn't materially different than selectively breeding little cute toy dogs.

In terms of the health of domestic hens, when properly fed and cared for they are healthier and live longer than their wild counterpart.

 

[Andy_T]

In terms of the health of domestic hens, when properly fed and cared for they are healthier and live longer than their wild counterpart.

Right!

That is normally the argument used in favour of animal agriculture.

Animals in a farm environment have much better lives than those out in the wilderness.

 

[flyingsnail]

Right!

That is normally the argument used in favour of animal agriculture.

Animals in a farm environment have much better lives than those out in the wilderness.

So you're going to ignore the issue at hand? But I can't imagine that this can, in general, be an argument for animal agriculture....after all animals on factory farms live short and brutal lives.

 

[Andy_T]

Unfortunately, this (and the "humaneness" of slaughter, as opposed to being ripped apart by a den of wolves or lions) is often given as a real example for the "good life" of animals in agricultural production.

The fact that most of these animals are brought into being simply to "produce" the animal product - hence their suffering is completely avoidable by not "creating" them in the first place - is normally not addressed in that argument.

 

[flyingsnail]

Unfortunately, this (and the "humaneness" of slaughter, as opposed to being ripped apart by a den of wolves or lions) is often given as a real example for the "good life" of animals in agricultural production.

I'm not sure how this relates to the discussion, we are taking about pet domestic hens and whether they can be healthy dispute laying a high number of eggs.

All domestic animals are brought into existence to produce some sort of product for humans and doing so doesn't necessitate suffering. One has to look at matters on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Clueless Git]

Right!

That is normally the argument used in favour of animal agriculture.

Animals in a farm environment have much better lives than those out in the wilderness.

It's the same argument as "slaves have better lives on the cotton plantations than they would have running loose in the jungle".

The fact that most of these animals are brought into being simply to "produce" the animal product - hence their suffering is completely avoidable by not "creating" them in the first place - is normally not addressed in that argument.

And that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when we look a little further into things than what we like to have for our breakfast.

 

[madjock2010]

Just a quick note. These hens Are not in an agriculture environment. Nature is allowed to take its natural course.

And I'd slaves were running free in the jungle they wouldn't be slaves.

I have gone vege because of the inhumane way that meat animals are raised.

I am trying to learn facts so I can make an informed decision to suit my lifestyle choice

 

[ledboots]

I'm not sure how this relates to the discussion, we are taking about pet domestic hens and whether they can be healthy dispute laying a high number of eggs.

All domestic animals are brought into existence to produce some sort of product for humans and doing so doesn't necessitate suffering. One has to look at matters on a case-by-case basis.

Ok, case by case: dairy cows and their babies suffer and die, meat cows suffer and die, laying chickens suffer and die (VAST majority are stuffed in tiny cages and cruelly debeaked), eating hens suffer and die, pigs suffer and die, baby sheep suffer and die, rabbits suffer and die, fish suffer and die of asphixiation. The house cats with no homes suffer and die, same with dogs.

 

[Bite Size Vegan]

I read somewhere that free range hens only end up with around 20% more space than battery hens.

Is this right?

I'm lucky as I can get true free range eggs from a neighbour that keeps chickens as pets.

sadly there is no real regulation of this term. as long as they can "see" the outdoors it can be free-rage- for instance, they can be piled on top of one another in a barn with a little screened door open- they can't go out but can "see" out- that is "free-range."

if you want a fuller explanation, check out this thread: Animal Rights - Thoughts on the Terms "Humane", "Free-Range", "Cruelty-Free", "Organic" Etc | Vegetarian and Vegan Forums @ Veggie Views

 

[madjock2010]

Thank you