Botanical fruitarianism

[David3]

Humans are not herbivores but frugivores. Like the great apes, our closest relatives, we are designed to eat only fruits. The gorilla or the orangutans only eat fruits in normal times. In case there is a food shortage, they add leaves and roots to their diet, and can even go for the odd rodent. However, when given the choice, they always choose fruits over anything else.

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Chimpanzees also eat leaves: What do chimpanzees eat?

Gorillas primarily eat leaves: What do gorillas eat? And other gorilla facts | WWF.

Stop making unsubstantiated claims, Colas.

 

[Lou]

Besides leaves, apes also eat bugs. That is probably where they get their B12.
I think chimps also will eat bird eggs and maybe even small birds.

Just looked it up in Wikipedia and Frugivores don't ONLY eat fruit.
The majority is fruit but they also eat roots, shoots, nuts and seeds.

65% of the diet of orangutans consists of fruit. Orangutans primarily eat fruit, along with young leaves, bark, flowers, honey, insects, and vines. One of their preferred foods is the fruit of the durian tree, which tastes somewhat like sweet custard. Orangutans discard the skin, eat the flesh, and spit out the seeds​

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Frugivore - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Primates are classified as omnivores. Although the gorilla is mostly vegetarian

 

[David3]

Dear friends, I have put my blood test results on my website. Granted, I do not take any supplements (like vitamin B12 or vitamin D). But everyone can check on my website that I do not have the slightest deficiency. The lab has analysed 27 of my blood parameters (including B12, iron, calcium, sodium, potassium, etc.) and all of them were perfectly right. I have made my blood test results public so that everyone can check for themselves whether or not I'm telling the truth. I have also published on my website the email that my GP sent me. In a nutshell, he said that all my results were excellent. He also said that he was flabbergasted and that I could carry on with my diet. He did not even recommend supplements. I appreciate that these facts go against your assumptions. You simply assume that a fruitarian diet is dangerous based on your moral beliefs. But the reality is different.
Here are my blood test results:

My blood test results – Ethical fruitarianism

www.purefruitarian.org

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No, I conclude that a sweet-fruit-only diet is unsafe because (1) no mainstream vegan health organization recommends such a diet and (2) this diet fails to meet the 10%-of-calories-from-protein recommendation of the World Health Organization.

The United Nations World Health Organization (WHO) has published an exhaustive report on human dietary protein requirements: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/43411/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf?ua=1 . Page 126 of the report summarizes the protein recommendations of the WHO: 0.83 gram of protein per kilogram of lean body weight. For a 170 lb. (77 kg) person, this would be 64 grams of protein per day. For a physically-active person, protein requirements are higher than this.

The Cronometer nutrition tracker shows that your daily food intake, as posted on your website, is deficient in protein, zinc, selenium, and vitamin B12. Your protein intake is only 43 grams per day. Your calcium intake is 720 mg per day (this calcium intake may be adequate).

I retract my claim that your calorie intake is low. The Cronometer nutrition tracker shows that you are consuming about 2650 calories per day. Despite this, you still are not meeting the WHO's protein intake recommendation.

It appears that, for certain nutrients, you are compensating for low nutrient-density by eating a very large volume of food (2650 calories per day). This calorie intake would be excessive for a person who is not highly physically-active.

You could easily correct your nutrient deficiencies by adding legumes and nuts to your diet, and by taking a B12 supplement.

 

[David3]

Avocadoes are mucus-forming fruits so I only eat very few of them.

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Provide evidence for this statement, with a link to your source.
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[Colas D]

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Not true.

Per Valencia College botany education materials, legumes and nuts are both fruits:

(2) Legume, composed of a single carpel and splitting along two sutures

(6) Nut, a hard, one-seeded fruit, generally formed from a compound ovary, with the pericarp hard throughout

Link: Fruit Types and Classification of Fruits

Dear David, as a Science teacher, I know very well the difference between a fruit and a nut. Your definition of a nut is perfect, but it is the definition of a nutshell. The shell of a nut is a fruit indeed. More precisely, a nutshell is a hard, one-seeded fruit, generally formed from a compound ovary, with the pericarp hard throughout. So when you break a hazelnut for example, the hard wooden shell that is inedible is the fruit. However, the hazelnut itself (the tender edible part that is surrounded by the shell) is not the fruit but the seed.

 

[David3]

Dear David, as a Science teacher, I know very well the difference between a fruit and a nut. Your definition of a nut is perfect, but it is the definition of a nutshell. The shell of a nut is a fruit indeed. More precisely, a nutshell is a hard, one-seeded fruit, generally formed from a compound ovary, with the pericarp hard throughout. So when you break a hazelnut for example, the hard wooden shell that is inedible is the fruit. However, the hazelnut itself (the tender edible part that is surrounded by the shell) is not the fruit but the seed.

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Show me your sources. Your statement disagrees with botany course material from Valencia College.
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[Colas D]

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Chimpanzees also eat leaves: What do chimpanzees eat?

Gorillas primarily eat leaves: What do gorillas eat? And other gorilla facts | WWF.

Stop making unsubstantiated claims, Colas.

Dear David, I'm afraid you are incorrect.

First, I've never said that chimps did not eat leaves. On the contrary, I said that they did. I also mentioned that they also eat roots and little animals. Please do not put in my mouth words that I have never said. What I said is that chimps, gorillas and orangutans were frugivorous animals, which means that they primarily eat fruits when given the choice. I said that fruit was their preferred option.

Second, you say that gorillas primarily eat leaves. That is completely wrong. By the way, nowhere does your article say such falsehood. The article you quoted say: "Gorillas stick to a mainly vegetarian diet, feeding on stems, bamboo shoots and fruits. Western lowland gorillas, however, also have an appetite for termites and ants, and break open termite nests to eat the larvae". That is entirely correct. And among all the foods listed, fruit is the primary one.
When it comes to the Western lowland gorilla, about 67% of their diet is fruit, 17% is leaves, seeds and stems and 3% is termites and caterpillars. The case of the mountain gorilla is an exception. This subspecies can only consume 3 types of fruit as there is hardly any fruit available due to the high altitude. As a result, about 86% of their diet is leaves, shoots, and stems, 7% is roots, 3% is flowers, 2% is fruit, and 2% ants, snails, and grubs.
So, you can see that when gorillas are given the choice, their preferred food is fruit. This is why great apes are frugivorous animals, not herbivores. You can look it up for yourself in any serious textbook.

Dear David, you say that I make unsubstantiated claims. Please, try not to write comments in a rush. You'd be better off studying the subject thoroughly before making this kind of comments. I apologise if what I say sounds condescending, I do not mean to be haughty. But please do not rush when answering my posts as you make erroneous statements that people may find confusing. Many thanks in advance.

 

[David3]

Dear David, I'm afraid you are incorrect.

First, I've never said that chimps did not eat leaves. On the contrary, I said that they did. I also mentioned that they also eat roots and little animals. Please do not put in my mouth words that I have never said. What I said is that chimps, gorillas and orangutans were frugivorous animals, which means that they primarily eat fruits when given the choice. I said that fruit was their preferred option.

Second, you say that gorillas primarily eat leaves. That is completely wrong. By the way, nowhere does your article say such falsehood. The article you quoted say: "Gorillas stick to a mainly vegetarian diet, feeding on stems, bamboo shoots and fruits. Western lowland gorillas, however, also have an appetite for termites and ants, and break open termite nests to eat the larvae". That is entirely correct. And among all the foods listed, fruit is the primary one.
When it comes to the Western lowland gorilla, about 67% of their diet is fruit, 17% is leaves, seeds and stems and 3% is termites and caterpillars. The case of the mountain gorilla is an exception. This subspecies can only consume 3 types of fruit as there is hardly any fruit available due to the high altitude. As a result, about 86% of their diet is leaves, shoots, and stems, 7% is roots, 3% is flowers, 2% is fruit, and 2% ants, snails, and grubs.
So, you can see that when gorillas are given the choice, their preferred food is fruit. This is why great apes are frugivorous animals, not herbivores. You can look it up for yourself in any serious textbook.

Dear David, you say that I make unsubstantiated claims. Please, try not to write comments in a rush. You'd be better off studying the subject thoroughly before making this kind of comments. I apologise if what I say sounds condescending, I do not mean to be haughty. But please do not rush when answering my posts as you make erroneous statements that people may find confusing. Many thanks in advance.

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Please provide sources to back up your claims. My statements are backed with links.
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[Colas D]

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No, I conclude that a sweet-fruit-only diet is unsafe because (1) no mainstream vegan health organization recommends such a diet and (2) this diet fails to meet the 10%-of-calories-from-protein recommendation of the World Health Organization.

The United Nations World Health Organization (WHO) has published an exhaustive report on human dietary protein requirements: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/43411/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf?ua=1 . Page 126 of the report summarizes the protein recommendations of the WHO: 0.83 gram of protein per kilogram of lean body weight. For a 170 lb. (77 kg) person, this would be 64 grams of protein per day. For a physically-active person, protein requirements are higher than this.

The Cronometer nutrition tracker shows that your daily food intake, as posted on your website, is deficient in protein, zinc, selenium, and vitamin B12. Your protein intake is only 43 grams per day. Your calcium intake is 720 mg per day (this calcium intake may be adequate).

I retract my claim that your calorie intake is low. The Cronometer nutrition tracker shows that you are consuming about 2650 calories per day. Despite this, you still are not meeting the WHO's protein intake recommendation.

It appears that, for certain nutrients, you are compensating for low nutrient-density by eating a very large volume of food (2650 calories per day). This calorie intake would be excessive for a person who is not highly physically-active.

You could easily correct your nutrient deficiencies by adding legumes and nuts to your diet, and by taking a B12 supplement.

An orange contains 0.09 mg of iron per 100g. That is perfect. The best evidence for this is that the level of iron found in an orange is almost identical to the level of iron found in breast milk (0.08 mg per 100g). However, broccoli contains 0.73 mg of iron per 100g. This is 9 times greater than what it should be! Of course, this is not as bad as clams (100g of clams contain a whopping 29.45mg of iron, which is 387 times greater than what it should be!!!)

When it comes to proteins, a mango for example contains 0.8g of proteins per 100g. An orange contains 0.9g per 100g. A banana contains 1.1g of proteins per 100g. These values — which average 1g per 100g — are absolutely perfect for human beings. The best evidence of this is that the level of proteins found in breast milk is precisely 1g per 100g. The fruitarian diet is the only diet that does not provide us with an excessive amount of proteins.

Some dry seaweeds are loaded with no less than 58g of proteins per 100g. That is 58 times greater than what it should be! Soybeans have 17g per 100g. Not to mention that many vegans take protein supplements as they have been told by their GPs that they could develop a protein deficiency!!! We live in a topsy-turvy world.

Now, when it comes to B12, calcium, or iron, you can check for yourself that my levels are perfectly right, exactly in the Goldilocks area. Here are my blood test results:

My blood test results – Ethical fruitarianism

www.purefruitarian.org

I appreciate that my results go against your presuppositions, but that is experimental evidence. My GP was flabbergasted, but he acknowledged that I was in perfect health when the lab sent him my results. He told me that he had never imagined my results would be excellent. He expected all my blood parameters (27 altogether) to be abnormal and off the charts, but none of them was.
I'm not a B12 fundamentalist. I certainly don't want to become deficient in this key vitamin. I will carry on doing blood tests regularly. If one day it turns out that my B12 levels are too low, I will take some B12 supplements. So far, my GP hasn't told me that it was necessary so I'm going to follow his recommendations.

 

[Colas D]

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Please provide sources to back up your claims. My statements are backed with links.
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All About the Gorilla - Diet & Eating Habits | SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment

Take a deep dive and learn all about gorillas - from what they like to eat to how they care for their young. Click here for a library of gorilla resources.

seaworld.org

 

[David3]

I appreciate that my results go against your presuppositions, but that is experimental evidence.

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No, your protein intake is substantially lower than that recommended by the World Health Organization. I don't personally have presuppositions.
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[David3]

All About the Gorilla - Diet & Eating Habits | SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment

Take a deep dive and learn all about gorillas - from what they like to eat to how they care for their young. Click here for a library of gorilla resources.

seaworld.org

Per your linked source:

• Mountain gorilla (Gorilla beringei beringei): This subspecies consumes parts of at least 142 plant species and only 3 types of fruit (there is hardly any fruit available due to the high altitude). About 86% of their diet is leaves, shoots, and stems, 7% is roots, 3% is flowers, 2% is fruit, and 2% ants, snails, and grubs.

Per your source, mountain gorillas are not frugivores. Not even close.
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[Colas D]

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Show me your sources. Your statement disagrees with botany course material from Valencia College.
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No, they are in perfect agreement. The Valencia College simply uses the term "nut" instead of "nutshell" as it is absolutely obvious from their definition that "nut" refers to "nutshell". Students know that very well, which is why the textbook do not even bother to specify it.

 

[silva]

I just realized Colas D is the same that started the thread "Please stop murdering plants!"
You know, we're all food. The idea that humans should somehow "morally" (?) move to where they can subsist on fruits is just all kinds of wrong-and crazy- as well as being potentially disasterous to the ecosystem and environment and the animals.....
This thread really should be taken down.

 

[David3]

I just realized Colas D is the same that started the thread "Please stop murdering plants!"
You know, we're all food. The idea that humans should somehow "morally" (?) move to where they can subsist on fruits is just all kinds of wrong-and crazy- as well as being potentially disasterous to the ecosystem and environment and the animals.....
This thread really should be taken down.

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Agreed. Colas also claims, on his posted website, that bacteria are conscious. I have reported the posts to the moderators.
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[Colas D]

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No, your protein intake is substantially lower than that recommended by the World Health Organization. I don't personally have presuppositions.
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Well, the World Health Organisation also recommended the consumption of red meat before it was classified as a carcinogen. They are far from being infallible!

 

[Colas D]

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Agreed. Colas also claims, on his posted website, that bacteria are conscious. I have reported the posts to the moderators.
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Right, I will stop arguing then. I did not mean to start an argument. I'm not a confrontational person. I thank you all for participating in this debate. I also thank you all for allowing me to express my opinions. Of course, we do disagree. But I always appreciate it when differences of opinions are valued and respected. So, thank you for giving me the opportunity to exchange with you.
As I said, I have great respect for the path you are treading on as I think veganism is a huge step forward. We must put an end to animal suffering. What you are doing to achieve this goal is great. I am 100% supportive of this commitment I wish you all the very best.
I apologise but I will no longer reply to your comments.

Colas.

 

[David3]

Well, the World Health Organisation also recommended the consumption of red meat before it was classified as a carcinogen. They are far from being infallible!

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Then please present your own reputable source - one that shows that your protein intake is adequate and safe.
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[David3]

Right, I will stop arguing then. I did not mean to start an argument. I'm not a confrontational person. I thank you all for participating in this debate. I also thank you all for allowing me to express my opinions. Of course, we do disagree. But I always appreciate it when differences of opinions are valued and respected. So, thank you for giving me the opportunity to exchange with you.
As I said, I have great respect for the path you are treading on as I think veganism is a huge step forward. We must put an end to animal suffering. What you are doing to achieve this goal is great. I am 100% supportive of this commitment I wish you all the very best.
I apologise but I will no longer reply to your comments.

Colas.

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Agreed! You are being helpful in posting misinformation. We are the bad people for pointing out that, per reputable sources, your recommended diet does not meet recommendations for protein, zinc, selenium, and vitamin B12.

We have the responsibility to protect new vegans from nutrition misinformation. That is why we are so critical of your claims.

 

[silva]

Right, I will stop arguing then. I did not mean to start an argument. I'm not a confrontational person. I thank you all for participating in this debate. I also thank you all for allowing me to express my opinions. Of course, we do disagree. But I always appreciate it when differences of opinions are valued and respected. So, thank you for giving me the opportunity to exchange with you.
As I said, I have great respect for the path you are treading on as I think veganism is a huge step forward. We must put an end to animal suffering. What you are doing to achieve this goal is great. I am 100% supportive of this commitment I wish you all the very best.
I apologise but I will no longer reply to your comments.

Colas.

Hard to believe as we went through this back in Nov.!