US Connecticut Shooting

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9749217/Connecticut-school-shooting-Adam-Lanzas-mother-was-preparing-for-disaster.html

Nancy Lanza, whose gun collection was raided by her son Adam for Friday’s massacre at Sandy Hook school, was part of the “prepper” movement, which urges readiness for social chaos by hoarding supplies and training with weapons.

“She prepared for the worst,” her sister-in-law Marsha Lanza told reporters. “Last time we visited her in person, we talked about prepping – are you ready for what could happen down the line, when the economy collapses?”


It also emerged that Mrs Lanza had spoken of her fears less than a week before the attack that she was “losing” her son. “She said it was getting worse. She was having trouble reaching him,” said a friend of Mrs Lanza who did not want to be named.
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Apocalypse fruitcake. You know, like those of us who all joke about zombies and Dec. 21st and stuff but don't actually believe it.

Perhaps that's an exaggeration, but close enough.
 
Wolfie said:
But we need laws to deal with psychos that are dangerous to others.
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With all due respect, I think that referring to those of us who are mentally ill as "psychos" and "nutcases" is part of the problem. When mental illness is stigmatized and those of us who are mentally ill are referred to as "psychos", it makes it far less appealing to admit you have a problem and need treatment. I know you mean those who are dangerous to others, but even then, those terms do damage.
 
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There was actually a documentary a while back that was based on a similar concept and it seemed to work pretty well until those overseeing it became corrupted.

 
yakherder said:
I probably would have been locked up long ago.
Wouldn't it be easier to just make it illegal to murder children?
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Isn't that implied in the law already?

In NH, you can face the death penalty for the murder of a cop or a politician, but not for killing a "regular" citizen. It's nice to know that the State regards me as a second class citizen.:rolleyes:
 
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sequoia said:
With all due respect, I think that referring to those of us who are mentally ill as "psychos" and "nutcases" is part of the problem. When mental illness is stigmatized and those of us who are mentally ill are referred to as "psychos", it makes it far less appealing to admit you have a problem and need treatment. I know you mean those who are dangerous to others, but even then, those terms do damage.
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Maybe you misunderstanding me is part of the problem. I never said everyone with mental illness is a pscyho. And I also never said, like beancounter has implied, that if a neighbor points a finger at someone, they should automatically be locked up. But if someone has violent tendencies and a panel of psychiatrists says they WILL kill one day, the rest of civilization needs to be protected from them. Not anywhere near the majority of mentally ill people have homicidal ideations. We need stricter controls on the ones that do as much as we need stricter controls on guns.

Some people can't be fixed, period.
 
beancounter said:
In NH, you can face the death penalty for the murder of a cop or a politician, but not for killing a "regular" citizen. It's nice to know that the State regards me as a second class citizen.:rolleyes:
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In many places the penalties are stiffer too if you murder a child under 12. Ageism at it's finest.
 
Annia said:
This thread disgusts me. I can't actually believe that people here are using the murders of 26 innocent people to push their political agendas.
It's completely sickening. Shame on you all.
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Don't worry, the conspiricy theories have already started if that makes you feel any better (worse). Obama brainwashed the killer using chemtrails so that he could push his anti-gun agenda, right? Unfortunately I am related to someone who genuinely believes this :fp: .

sequoia said:
With all due respect, I think that referring to those of us who are mentally ill as "psychos" and "nutcases" is part of the problem. When mental illness is stigmatized and those of us who are mentally ill are referred to as "psychos", it makes it far less appealing to admit you have a problem and need treatment. I know you mean those who are dangerous to others, but even then, those terms do damage.
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Agreed. This can be extended to the family too. It is hard enough for a lot of parents to admit their child needs help, let alone if you fear them being labelled a psycho/loony/etc.
 
Wolfie said:
Maybe you misunderstanding me is part of the problem. I never said everyone with mental illness is a pscyho. And I also never said, like beancounter has implied, that if a neighbor points a finger at someone, they should automatically be locked up. But if someone has violent tendencies and a panel of psychiatrists says they WILL kill one day, the rest of civilization needs to be protected from them. Not anywhere near the majority of mentally ill people have homicidal ideations. We need stricter controls on the ones that do as much as we need stricter controls on guns.

Some people can't be fixed, period.
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I said that I know you meant only those who are dangerous. :) And I still think it isn't right to refer to them as "psycho", because doing so adds to the stigma of mental illness. I do agree with you that those who are violent and will kill need to be kept away from society. And I do agree that some people just can't be "fixed".
 
Liz said:
Don't worry, the conspiricy theories have already started if that makes you feel any better (worse). Obama brainwashed the killer using chemtrails so that he could push his anti-gun agenda, right? Unfortunately I am related to someone who genuinely believes this :fp: .
Click to expand...

I heard the CIA was using mind control on the guy who killed the people in the theater, for the same reason, to promote gun control. Scary how many people believed that one.
 
People want and feel they are owed an answer to a collective "Why?" truth is, it's scarier because "we" will never get it. Life doesn't work like that. Even if there were a way to prove 100% beyond a doubt, this is the answer... some will need it and distort it otherwise. The mind is a strange thing inventing and believing some of the mentioned above^

Sometimes the unimaginable just happens. I do however think in this case there is a probably a good chance this could have been prevented had this shooter gotten the help he needed.
 
I think it's worth pointing out that people with mental illness are NO MORE LIKELY TO HARM OTHERS than someone who does not have a mental illness. It's when a mental illness is combined with substance abuse (drugs or alcohol) that the risk factor of harming others increases.
 
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das_nut said:
Do you really think it's really beneficial to drag other threads into the debate? Do you think it helps your point? Do you think it helps the debate?
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That wasn't part of the debate, dearie. That was you making comments about me, to which I responded with my opinion of you. If you think that other's opinions of you are going to start with a clean slate in every thread, you're being remarkably naive.



das_nut said:
At least I know that the assault weapons ban actually didn't actually ban most semi-automatic pistols.
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I said my memory was that it didn't, but that it had been a long time since I had read the legislation. My memory was correct, and yet you think you somehow just scored a point? Wow.



das_nut said:
I believe the thinking is that we can discuss gun control, even gun control that wouldn't make an effective difference because "isn't even the thought of children getting killed a horrible thing"?

Discuss mental health or anything else though, and you're going to be accused of taking the spotlight off of gun control.

So yep, at this point it's a gun control debate. I guess we can't expect much better. God forbid we talk about the victims or the survivors.
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My, my. Don't you have your panties in a twist.
 
Let's make it illegal for people with mental illness to use drugs.

I know, I'm on a roll, right?

Sorry for my continued smartassedness. I don't have a real solution beyond the one people have always used. Bury the dead, grieve in whatever way you feel appropriate, and harden your heart in preparation for the next incident which should be happening shortly (I heard another bomb just killed about 20 in Pakistan).
 
FAIRFIELD, Conn. — Hundreds of mourners said their goodbyes on Monday to two little boys who loved football and tacos and who lost their lives along with 18 other children when a gunman burst into their school and started shooting.Family, friends and townspeople streamed into two funeral homes to mourn two 6-year-olds: Jack Pinto, who was buried in a New York Giants jersey, and Noah Pozner, who loved animals and video games and liked to figure out how things worked mechanically. His twin sister, Arielle, was in another classroom and survived.The funeral for Noah, the youngest child to be killed, was held at a Jewish funeral home in Fairfield, Conn., on a street lined with clusters of white balloons, which have become something of a symbol of grief for the children who died. On a tree outside the white clapboard house was a green hand-lettered sign that read: "Our hearts are with you Noah."
 
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I dont understand this idea of the kid "getting the help he needed." What sort of help even exists for someone like him anywhere? No such programme for kids who are potential troubled loners exist anywhere and he was completely unable to fit into society. The only option available for him was being with his mother who was 1) herself an unhealthy influence and also 2) a very stifling situation for a young man, to have no life outside the family home and only a parent to spend time with. No amount of psychotherapy or psych drugs could have changed his situation and he probably was sent to a number of therapists anyway.

In many ways it is just easier to not have all the guns lying around.
 

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