FDR and Prince Konoye

[rainforests1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Konoye
Prince Konoye spent months trying to get a meeting with Roosevelt. Roosevelt refused. This could have improved US relations with Japan prior to Pearl Harbor, ended the Japan-China conflict, and prevented China from becoming Communist. Other than the obvious reason(Roosevelt wanted war) why would Roosevelt refuse to even have discussions with Japan's leaders?

 

[kibbleforlola]

Why didn't he? Because hindsight is 20/20.

I know you love conspiracy theories, but sometimes there really isn't a reason per se. It's easy to look back and say "we should have done x", but truth is, somethings just happen. That's all.

 

[rainforests1]

There's only one reason that I can think as to why a leader would refuse to talk with the opposing side. Reading the book "Freedom Betrayed" Herbert Hoover thought Roosevelt's refusal to talk with Konoye was a very big event in World War 2. This has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. Many Democrats admire Roosevelt, so there has to be an explanation out there somewhere.

 

[kibbleforlola]

I don't see how him being a likeable guy has anything to do with his foreign policy.

Like I said, sometimes **** just happens, and we don't realize we could have prevented it until after the fact.

 

[Envy]

I don't see how him being a likeable guy has anything to do with his foreign policy.

Like I said, sometimes **** just happens, and we don't realize we could have prevented it until after the fact.

Leaving important events to the prospect of it being void of reason or cause is oddly unsatisfactory.

 

[Muggle]

Oh come on! It's obvious!

Obama used the fact he's Muslim and not American to conspired with Osama Bin Laden and they made a time machine so Obama could go back in time and stop Roosevelt from having the meeting. The time machine was housed in the World Trade Centres so that why they got destroyed.

See?! It makes perfect sense.


Or, you know, maybe like kfl said hindsight is everything. I don't really see what the point is of discussing something that happened over 70 years. There is no point doing what ifs. Fact is, things happened the way they did. There's no way of changing that unless Obama really does have a time machine.

 

[rainforests1]

No explanation on Roosevelt's wikipedia page, and no explanation on any searches I've done. His oil embargo against Japan(but not the Soviet Union) and his refusal to talk with Konoye seem consistent with a policy to promote war. I see columnists like Froma Harrop, Richard Cohen, and even Robert Scheer(not a fan of the Dems) express admiration for him. It's odd as to the kind of people we admire.

 

[Envy]

Oh come on! It's obvious!

Obama used the fact he's Muslim and not American to conspired with Osama Bin Laden and they made a time machine so Obama could go back in time and stop Roosevelt from having the meeting. The time machine was housed in the World Trade Centres so that why they got destroyed.

See?! It makes perfect sense.


Or, you know, maybe like kfl said hindsight is everything. I don't really see what the point is of discussing something that happened over 70 years. There is no point doing what ifs. Fact is, things happened the way they did. There's no way of changing that unless Obama really does have a time machine.

I admit to not agreeing with rainforest, but now you are being way out of line on this one.

It's one thing to argue, but to come and regurgitate old lines about "hurrh obama is teh devil" as to try to argue that he (RF) is some kind of mini-Romney benefits no one.

Also...

OI don't really see what the point is of discussing something that happened over 70 years.

Why are you here then?

 

[Muggle]

I admit to not agreeing with rainforest, but now you are being way out of line on this one.

It's one thing to argue, but to come and regurgitate old lines about "hurrh obama is teh devil" as to try to argue that he (RF) is some kind of mini-Romney benefits no one.

Did I say anything about RF? Nope. This thread just sounds like a conspiracy theory thread and conspiracy theories amuse me.
Besides, I didn't mention Democrats first. (I don't quite understand the relevant of Democrats liking the guy but whatever. I'm just a silly wimmin. )

Also...



Why are you here then?

See above. I find conspiracy theories amusing. I'm just going to sit in here with some popcorn.

 

[rainforests1]

I don't quite understand the relevant of Democrats liking the guy but whatever. I'm just a silly wimmin. )

One of the obvious problems with Roosevelt was the terror bombing we were doing to civilians. This is well-known. The civilians who suffered from his policies would feel embarassed to see him admired. It says a lot about the character of a person if they admire him. I don't see how that's not relevent.

 

[Envy]

Did I say anything about RF? Nope. This thread just sounds like a conspiracy theory thread and conspiracy theories amuse me.
Besides, I didn't mention Democrats first. (I don't quite understand the relevant of Democrats liking the guy but whatever. I'm just a silly wimmin. )

Well, come on, you can't deny that mocking the thread topic is indirectly also mocking the OP in a way.

As for the democrats.....well, that I cannot explain in a satisfactory manner. I may have a hunch, but it's his theory after all.

See above. I find conspiracy theories amusing. I'm just going to sit in here with some popcorn.

*sigh* You do as you want after all, but declaring it to be a conspiracy theory from the get-go might not be the best idea.

 

[Muggle]

One of the obvious problems with Roosevelt was the terror bombing we were doing to civilians. This is well-known. The civilians who suffered from his policies would feel embarassed to see him admired. It says a lot about the character of a person if they admire him. I don't see how that's not relevent.

Nope. Still don't get it.

What do you mean about a person's character if they admire him?

 

[Envy]

The civilians?

Do you mean people besides the Germans?

 

[mlp]

One of the obvious problems with Roosevelt was the terror bombing we were doing to civilians. This is well-known. The civilians who suffered from his policies would feel embarassed to see him admired. It says a lot about the character of a person if they admire him. I don't see how that's not relevent.

I hear people speaking admiringly of Roosevelt in connection with social programs and economic initiatives to move the country out of the Great Depression, and of his personal fortitude with respect to his physical disabilities. If you think (as you seem to) that a human being is either all good or all evil, that does go a good distance toward explaining your enthrallment with conspiracy theories.

Well, come on, you can't deny that mocking the thread topic is indirectly also mocking the OP in a way.

As for the democrats.....well, that I cannot explain in a satisfactory manner. I may have a hunch, but it's his theory after all.

*sigh* You do as you want after all, but declaring it to be a conspiracy theory from the get-go might not be the best idea.

Well, it's quite obvious from the OP that it's another conspiracy theory. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see a thread from RF that isn't rooted in or somehow linked to conspiracy theory. And yes, I find conspiracy theories ridiculous.


Here's a more reasonable summary of the Konoye wish to meet with Roosevelt, and what the impact of such a meeting might have been: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/08/opinion/08iht-edwarn.t.htm Of course, it won't appeal to the tinfoil hat crowd.

 

[Freesia]

I think that perhaps Roosevelt had poor relations with Japan and that time, and then the complications of WWII made it all worse. I am not sure that he actually wanted to go to war with Japan, but then I havent read much about the subject.

Conversely, I support many of Obamas policies but I really disapprove of the amount of money he has spent on war, it is disappointing, I was hoping that he would end all those wars. But still he is leagues better than Mitt Romney, who is a very aggressive person and seems very keen on new wars.

 

[rainforests1]

I hear people speaking admiringly of Roosevelt in connection with social programs and economic initiatives to move the country out of the Great Depression, and of his personal fortitude with respect to his physical disabilities. If you think (as you seem to) that a human being is either all good or all evil, that does go a good distance toward explaining your enthrallment with conspiracy theories.



Well, it's quite obvious from the OP that it's another conspiracy theory. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see a thread from RF that isn't rooted in or somehow linked to conspiracy theory. And yes, I find conspiracy theories ridiculous.


Here's a more reasonable summary of the Konoye wish to meet with Roosevelt, and what the impact of such a meeting might have been: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/08/opinion/08iht-edwarn.t.htm Of course, it won't appeal to the tinfoil hat crowd.

Didn't Hitler also have social programs? I thought you don't respond to my posts anymore. Apparently you just pick and choose. Even some of the worst people have some good in them. I understand that. Roosevelt and Churchill both murdered innocent civilians, and they should be looked at as murderers more than anything. I'll look at your link later.

 

[rainforests1]

The civilians?

Do you mean people besides the Germans?

The Germans and the Japanese. I've read we killed tens of thousands of French civilians with bombing. A lot of Russians suffered from Operation Keelhaul and similar operations. If you include Churchill, you'd have to include Indians who died from the Bengal Famine. The list is very long.

 

[rainforests1]

mlp, your link isn't working.

 

[mlp]

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/08/opinion/08iht-edwarn.t.html

 

[rainforests1]

Your source claims the United States would have been dragged in if Germany and Japan had fought Russia, but gives no explanation as to the scenario. Why would either countries fight the United States when they had their own battles to worry about? Not convincing at all. If we had no Lend-Lease aid, no oil embargo against Japan, had made every effort for peace, and remained completely neutral, I see no reason we would have been involved.