George Zimmerman trial

[ledboots]

I do not think the prosecution met anywhere near the burden of proof in that trial and would have been surprised by any other outcome. And (to defend Florida a little), its gun and self-defense laws are similar to those in many other states.

The media made this about race. The defense, prosecution, and law enforcement all agreed it was *not* about race.

The trial was streamed live on local cable here in Florida, and on demand. They said they will start live coverage again at 6am est, in around 4 hours.

 

[Freesia]

George Zimmerman found not guilty

*sigh*

The 2 questions I have about this is

1) Would George Zimmerman have had the same level of concern if he had seen a white 18 year old guy walking down the street?

and

2) If he felt so threatened by this guy, why did he not stay in his truck? Seems strange to go towards someone who you consider threatening, most people would try and avoid someone they thought was menacing, not get out of a safe vehicle and set after them on foot. Does not add up.

 

[beancounter]

Ensuring that one is the only survivor of any kind of confrontation seems to be the way to go.

Yes, that is the major flaw in these laws. As long as you ensure the other person is dead, there's no way to prove you didn't feel threatened.

 

[rainforests1]

There are around 320,000,000 Americans. A very, very small percent are effected by this trial. Any claims about the effect this trial will have in the future are just guesses and many of them will be proven wrong.

The media made this about race. The defense, prosecution, and law enforcement all agreed it was *not* about race.

People question why I don't trust the media. You're better off believing nothing they say rather than everything they say.

 

[Amy SF]

The 2 questions I have about this is

1) Would George Zimmerman have had the same level of concern if he had seen a white 18 year old guy walking down the street?

and

2) If he felt so threatened by this guy, why did he not stay in his truck? Seems strange to go towards someone who you consider threatening, most people would try and avoid someone they thought was menacing, not get out of a safe vehicle and set after them on foot. Does not add up.

1) No, probably not.

2) He was part of the local Neighborhood Watch. He felt it was his duty to approach anyone he thought looked suspicious, and in this society, a black kid is ALWAYS suspicious.

 

[ledboots]

The 2 questions I have about this is

1) Would George Zimmerman have had the same level of concern if he had seen a white 18 year old guy walking down the street?

and

2) If he felt so threatened by this guy, why did he not stay in his truck? Seems strange to go towards someone who you consider threatening, most people would try and avoid someone they thought was menacing, not get out of a safe vehicle and set after them on foot. Does not add up.

1. Even the prosecution agreed with the defense and law enforcement that the case was not about race.

2. Zimmerman was likely keeping his eye on the neighborhood because of the spike in crime that had been occurring there. It's a racially mixed townhouse neighborhood, not a gated enclave of mansions. He probably did not feel his life was in danger before he was allegedly jumped by Travon, but he felt someone in the neighborhood might be victimized. The police operator asked which way the boy was headed, and that seems to be why zimmerman exited the truck. It was after a few questions about the direction trayvon was headed that zimmerman was told he "didn't need" to follow the teen.

From wiki

"Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[84]

Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood.[2]

In September 2011, the Twin Lakes residents held an organizational meeting to create a neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman was selected by neighbors as the program's coordinator, according to Wendy Dorival,Neighborhood Watch organizer for the Sanford Police Department.[5][5][85]

Three weeks prior to the shooting, on February 2, 2012, Zimmerman called police to report a young man peering into the windows of an empty Twin Lakes home. Zimmerman was told a police car was on the way and he waited for their arrival. By the time police arrived, the suspect had fled. On February 6, workers witnessed two young black men lingering in the yard of a Twin Lakes resident around the same time her home was burglarized. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. The next day police discovered the stolen laptop in the backpack of a young black man, which led to his arrest. Zimmerman identified this young man as the same person he had spotted peering into windows on February 2.[2]"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

 

[beancounter]

I think it's pretty evident that TM felt threatened. Whether he feared bodily harm, or feared being wrongly accused and sent to jail, or feared is reputation/honor was threatened, or whether he feared being "cornered" and couldn't escape because he was on foot and Zimmerman was in a car, doesn't matter. It's very likely he felt threatened.

It seems to me , based on the break-ins that the community was experiencing, Zimmerman was out to get someone....anyone.

But the benefit of killing the other person, is that your side of the story is the only one that can be told.

 

[ledboots]

Zimmerman was just going to Target, not out on patrol or anything. He saw someone he thought was acting suspiciously, so he called the cops. He should have left it at that. I'm not trying to defend his actions.

 

[das_nut]

I think it's pretty evident that TM felt threatened. Whether he feared bodily harm, or feared being wrongly accused and sent to jail, or feared is reputation/honor was threatened, or whether he feared being "cornered" and couldn't escape because he was on foot and Zimmerman was in a car, doesn't matter. It's very likely he felt threatened.

It seems to me , based on the break-ins that the community was experiencing, Zimmerman was out to get someone....anyone.

But the benefit of killing the other person, is that your side of the story is the only one that can be told.

Well, there was the witnesses who claimed that a person who fitted Martin's description was on top of Zimmerman, as well as the injuries to Zimmerman and the relative lack of injuries (except the fatal gunshot wound) to Martin. That both seems to collaborate his story that he was unexpectedly attacked by Martin.

And the pesky little fact that Trayvon Martin should have been able to make it home in the four minutes between when George Zimmerman claims he last saw him, and when the fight started.

You are right that Trayvon Martin being dead does help George Zimmerman in that Martin cannot claim events happened otherwise. But as the events happened, there's not the burden of proof to show that Zimmerman acted in a way consistent with manslaughter or murder.

 

[Spang]

Every 28 hours a Black person is extrajudicially killed in this country. This is a practice that has been going on in the United States for its entirety, and for several hundred years prior.

Black people were never meant to survive in this country. And the system was never built to protect them.

 

[kazyeeqen]

Every 28 hours a Black person is extrajudicially killed in this country. This is a practice that has been going on in the United States for its entirety, and for several hundred years prior.

Black people were never meant to survive in this country. And the system was never built to protect them.

Yes. And to think that race didn't play a part is foolhardy, no matter who's claiming it didn't. Race is always a part.

 

[Forster]

 

[beancounter]

Well, there was the witnesses who claimed that a person who fitted Martin's description was on top of Zimmerman, as well as the injuries to Zimmerman and the relative lack of injuries (except the fatal gunshot wound) to Martin. That both seems to collaborate his story that he was unexpectedly attacked by Martin.

And the pesky little fact that Trayvon Martin should have been able to make it home in the four minutes between when George Zimmerman claims he last saw him, and when the fight started.

You are right that Trayvon Martin being dead does help George Zimmerman in that Martin cannot claim events happened otherwise. But as the events happened, there's not the burden of proof to show that Zimmerman acted in a way consistent with manslaughter or murder.

GZ was acquitted because the prosecution couldn't prove that GZ didn't fear for his life. My point was that TM probably feared for his life, and that's why he attacked. You don't have to be physically cornered to feel threatened.

People move around a lot during a fight. Being on top doesn't prove anything other than he was engaged in a fight. Being on top doesn't prove specific motivations or circumstances.

What does it matter if he could have made it home in 4 minutes. GZ was in a car. Cars travel faster than humans...

Furthermore, even if he could make it home and lock the door before GZ could catch up to him, for all TM knew, this unidentified relentless pursuer could have broken the door down/smashed a window and attacked him inside the house.

 

[Mischief]

There are around 320,000,000 Americans. A very, very small percent are effected by this trial.

I suspect that you are white, probably a white male, and that you don't have any black friends, otherwise you couldn't be quite so oblivious.

This was the reaction of the mother of a young black man I know:

It is so hard to believe that a black child's life in this country does not mean a thing horrifies me because I have 2 black sons, and this could happened to them. I pray for my sons everyday and we have taught them to treat people the way they want to be treated and love everybody and this is what is given back to them a slap in the face. My heart hurts for this family and my sons just for being born black.

 

[Mischief]

Yes. And to think that race didn't play a part is foolhardy, no matter who's claiming it didn't. Race is always a part.

Agreed 100%.

 

[beancounter]

Sorry for being so un-hip, but I don't get how the picture ties in to the caption. Is the guy in the picture some type of TV villain?

 

[beancounter]

There are around 320,000,000 Americans. A very, very small percent are effected by this trial. Any claims about the effect this trial will have in the future are just guesses and many of them will be proven wrong.

The problem is that this trial sets a precedent in the eyes of the public. Now people will be emboldened to shoot someone they don't like because they think all they have to do is claim is that they feared for their life. I'm also betting that Florida type laws will start spreading around the country to many other states, ...and may be signed into law in your state. In which case, the trial will have a potential impact on your life.

 

[peacefulveglady]

The problem is that this trial sets a precedent in the eyes of the public. Now people will be emboldened to shoot someone they don't like because they think all they have to do is claim is that they feared for their life. I'm also betting that Florida type laws will start spreading around the country to many other states, ...and may be signed into law in your state. In which case, the trial will have a potential impact on your life.

This is why the media should stay out of the court room and its not our buisness what the verdict is , the media did this and now this poor guy is afraid for his life. I don't mean to say poor guy to feel sorry it just that things are best not on TV or online or media for protection.

 

[beancounter]

This is why the media should stay out of the court room and its not our business what the verdict is , the media did this and now this poor guy is afraid for his life. I don't mean to say poor guy to feel sorry it just that things are best not on TV or online or media for protection.

I disagree. I believe the public has a right to know what's going on in the courts. Although I agree that the media should stick to the facts and tone down the fanfare.

 

[das_nut]

GZ was acquitted because the prosecution couldn't prove that GZ didn't fear for his life. My point was that TM probably feared for his life, and that's why he attacked. You don't have to be physically cornered to feel threatened.

But legally, you need to have a reasonable fear of an immediate action to justifiably use an appropriate level of force to respond.

Attacking a "crazy-*** cracker" (as Ms. Jeantel claims Trayvon Martin called George Zimmerman) for following you does not meet the burden.

What does it matter if he could have made it home in 4 minutes. GZ was in a car. Cars travel faster than humans...

Except that about four minutes passed between when George left the car (after "losing" Trayvon), and the fatal fight. In those 4 minutes, Trayvon appears to have stayed nearby, or doubled back. Why? Maybe he was frightened and decided to hide and then attack George when George came close. But we don't know.

Furthermore, even if he could make it home and lock the door before GZ could catch up to him, for all TM knew, this unidentified relentless pursuer could have broken the door down/smashed a window and attacked him inside the house.

Yes, hypothetically, that could have happened. So would Trayvon have been justified in using deadly force against George? If so, how about the other hypothetical - George unthinkingly gave part of his address to the 911 dispatcher before realizing that anyone nearby could hear it. Would George have been justified in attacking Trayvon, because for all George knew this unidentified suspicious guy could go to George's house for revenge?

You seem to be holding these two individuals to very different standards. Why is that?