US Gun Control Laws and Law Enforcement

ledboots said:
And the AR-15 type guns that are legal in the US are not assault rifles, as they are not automatic weapons. They do not spray bullets like a machine gun, the trigger is pulled for each bullet shot.
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PTree15 said:
Even if it requires a trigger pull for each shot, it allows for more rapid and longer shooting sessions before having to reload than a standard shotgun, I think. These weapons seem designed to kill multiple people at a time more quickly, which makes them more suited for military use.
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A semi-automatic can fire 20 shots in under 10 seconds. You know, in case the deer is getting away.
 
Spang said:
It doesn't matter if white people have more guns, gun control laws will disproportionately affect people of color.

Illegal drugs are forbidden for everybody. White people consume most of the illegal drugs in the U.S., however the so-called War on Drugs disproportionately affect people of color.

Gun control laws will be similarly racist in its implementation. You'll still have gun violence, gun manufacturers spitting out firearms, and law enforcement killing people.
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You're applying blanket logic. No one is saying that gun control would prevent police from committing violent racist acts. It would prevent mass shootings, though.

I mean, you're not wrong? Because undoubtedly ******* racist police and our racist justice system would end up persecuting more people of color than white people for owning weapons. That's not gun control's problem, that's systematic racism. We can't not prevent mass shootings because the laws might be used by racist cops. We need to destroy racism in the police system, but that's a separate thing from gun control.
 
FortyTwo said:
No one is saying that gun control would prevent police from committing violent racist acts. It would prevent mass shootings, though.
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Mass shootings represent less than 1% of all murders in the United States. If we get rid of mass shootings, we will still have gun violence, gun manufacturers spitting out firearms, and law enforcement killing people.
 
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Spang said:
Mass shootings represent less than 1% of all murders in the United States. If we get rid of mass shootings, we will still have gun violence, gun manufacturers spitting out firearms, and law enforcement killing people.
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But we will be rid of mass shootings...?

In choosing between "we have tons of violence" and "we have tons of violence but now there's less of it" the choice is pretty clear to me. I'm not going to ignore a solution to mass shootings just because it wouldn't fix everything. There is never a solution to fix everything. Assuming that no action is required from that point just because it won't fix all the problems is pretty hopelessly nihilistic in my opinion.

I'd like to ask - what is it that you think would fix gun violence in the US? If you honestly believe gun control would solve very little of our gun violence problem, and just make life harder for people of color, what's your solution that helps everyone? I genuinely want to know, I'm trying to keep an open mind here, even though it's a little hard not to be angry that people are still having this discussion.
 
FortyTwo said:
I'd like to ask - what is it that you think would fix gun violence in the US? If you honestly believe gun control would solve very little of our gun violence problem, and just make life harder for people of color, what's your solution that helps everyone? I genuinely want to know, I'm trying to keep an open mind here, even though it's a little hard not to be angry that people are still having this discussion.
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As long as we have guns, we will always have gun violence. If we are going to keep guns out of the hands of people, we also need to keep guns out of the hands of police. We need to divest in police and invest in communities. If we want to get rid of guns, we need to get rid of the gun manufacturers. That's it in a nutshell.
 
Spang said:
As long as we have guns, we will always have gun violence. If we are going to keep guns out of the hands of people, we also need to keep guns out of the hands of police. We need to divest in police and invest in communities. If we want to get rid of guns, we need to get rid of the gun manufacturers. That's it in a nutshell.
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So dismantle capitalism and the capitalist hold on weapons basically.

I certainly don't disagree with you, but that doesn't mean I don't think we should be trying in the meantime. Those are some pretty lofty goals, and even if they are implemented it will take time, a massive push, and a practical paradigm shift. At the moment gun control legislation could go through, there's just a decent bit of opposition from the right.
 
Spang said:
Mass shootings represent less than 1% of all murders in the United States. If we get rid of mass shootings, we will still have gun violence, gun manufacturers spitting out firearms, and law enforcement killing people.
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More people of color are killed by other people of color than by racist police. That doesn't mitigate the problem with racist police, but let's not ignore the fact that people of color are also disproportionately the victims of gun violence.
 
Mischief said:
More people of color are killed by other people of color than by racist police. That doesn't mitigate the problem with racist police, but let's not ignore the fact that people of color are also disproportionately the victims of gun violence.
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That's true. I'd like to see an end to gun violence, not just mass shootings.
 
The AR-15 "was designed for the United States military to do to enemies of war exactly what it did this morning: kill mass numbers of people with maximum efficiency and ease. That is why the AR-15 has remained the weapon of choice for the United States military for over 50 years," lawyer Josh Koskoff said in a statement. "It is the gold standard for killing the enemy in battle, just as it has become the gold standard for mass murder of innocent civilians."

Read more: Everything You Need to Know About the AR-15 Used in Orlando


I sincerely wish I could understand the psyche of individuals that seek to own these types of weapons. Is there anyone who purchases one of these that doesn't envision themselves killing people?
 
FortyTwo said:
So dismantle capitalism and the capitalist hold on weapons basically.
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That's right.

FortyTwo said:
I certainly don't disagree with you, but that doesn't mean I don't think we should be trying in the meantime. Those are some pretty lofty goals, and even if they are implemented it will take time, a massive push, and a practical paradigm shift. At the moment gun control legislation could go through, there's just a decent bit of opposition from the right.
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I get that it won't be easy, and I also get that we're probably closer than we've been in a long time to passing actual gun control legislation. I won't be upset if it happens, but in addition to the other things that I've mentioned, I'm not confident that liberals will demand more. And more, and more, and more, until those lofty goals are achieved. Liberals are pretty okay with capitalism.
 
Spang said:
That's right.

I get that it won't be easy, and I also get that we're probably closer than we've been in a long time to passing actual gun control legislation. I won't be upset if it happens, but in addition to the other things that I've mentioned, I'm not confident that liberals will demand more. And more, and more, and more, until those lofty goals are achieved. Liberals are pretty okay with capitalism.
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I'm generally with you there. Mainstream liberalism is pretty garbage.

My one and only argument here is that gun control legislation could have prevented this shooting, and would be able to prevent further shootings in the future.

As far as attempting to abolish murder and destroy capitalism, these are things I obviously want, but I'm not counting on being obtainable in the near future.
 
Democratic senator frustrated by inaction on guns begins filibuster



And not long before: "DETROIT — Police are searching for two suspects after a shooting on the east side reportedly left two dead and one injured early Wednesday, June 15."
It goes on to say: "The television station reports one of the weapons used was an AK-47, which is an assault rifle."
 
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