Has anyone felt any real health differences after going vegan?

[Forest Nymph]

Oh another possibility you need to consider...those people who have been raised vegetarian or vegan since conception who never even had a concept of flesh, or animal products in general, being "food." I know a guy who has never had meat and he sees it as non-food, and it's not even an ethical issue for him...its just NOT FOOD.

A lot of what people eat is a matter of social conditioning, just like learned violence.

 

[Sam]

Sam you've become hysterical. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.

I have an acquaintance who is an omni. Her diet primarily consists of macaroni and cheese, sugary cereals, pizza, and chicken strips. I'm sure she's much more nutrient deficient than myself and appears to not have much of an imagination.

I used to a date a man who had a lot of **** to talk about vegans and vegetarians - but he tended to always eat the same damn things: canned raviolis, packaged sweetened yogurts, milk and cereal, ham sandwiches and eggs. He had the most boring basic working class diet I can possibly imagine.

Of course there are vegans who don't know how to eat. I've seen the beans and rice eaters, the ones who try to live on Gardein products, and those who have very boring diets in general.

It has nothing to do with being vegan. Some people don't know how to feed themselves. It tends to be more common though in new vegans who are so used to eating xyz foods they don't know how to replace those old meals with new meals.

It's very troubling you struggle this much not to eat meat that you project your own motives on to others. I suggest you get some new recipes from Pinterest or eat more ethnic cuisine from take-out.

I am fortunate that I don't have this issue. I couldn't eat meat under any circumstance, it's just not food to me. About a month after going vegan I had a nightmare where there were humans hanging from meat hooks and a side of a pig (pork) was thrown on this really cold, concrete floor. It was very jarring but I can't see meat as "food" since then.

Maybe you can get therapy. Best of luck, Sam.

Were you trolling?

Ok well Im going to go play with my dice like a mad man, I have 3 dice but if I only use 2 of them Im certain it will result in more combinations than if I used 3.

Bye

 

[Forest Nymph]

Were you trolling?

Ok well Im going to go play with my dice like a mad man, I have 2 dice but if I only use 1 of them Im certain it will result in more combinations than if I used 2.

Bye

No I'm telling you the truth. I'm a truth teller to a fault. I am so truthful that sometimes it offends people or pushes them away. You have issues you're projecting on to other people. When you think large numbers of people are lying just because they don't see things as you do, the problem is on your end, not ours.

You seem to have no concept, as I mentioned earlier, of people who have never seen flesh or animal products as "food." This seems to be beyond your frame of perception - in fact it's kind of alarming you don't realize that there are life-long vegans and vegetarians who never missed what they didn't see as "food" to begin with.

It's also strange to me that you see eating Tofurky instead of a turkey as "less options" when you can literally swap one out for the other. Even if you had a variety of food before you were vegan, the fact of the matter is we live in the 21st century and there's literally NOTHING we cannot make vegan, no cuisine, no dish, no dessert, no cultural fast food item, that can't be veganized.

So no, not everyone in developing countries who was raised vegetarian or near to it wishes they could afford meat or more meat, and no they don't pray that they can have cheese if 90 percent of the people in their gene pool are completely lactose intolerant.

You apparently feel deprived or cheated of something, like you're making some great sacrifice. I do not have these feelings. I eat mashed chickpea and avocado sandwiches now instead of egg salad, I eat noodles with peanut butter, Sriracha, soy sauce and lime juice instead of Lipton buttery noodles. I eat babaganoush or tahini instead of tzasiki sauce, and as I've already mentioned, I can eat at just about every restaurant in town, including getting a huge Chicago style vegan dog at the hot dog shop. On holidays I make vegan roasts and mushroom gravy from scratch, and if I want something like cheese, I can order a pizza with vegan cheese, or buy some Chao or Follow Your Heart slices and make a recipe at home.

You just seem a tad "off" to me. I don't want to be mean to you because of it, but it's hard when you keep hysterically insisting enculturated eating is exactly like a math problem, when it's obviously not.

 

[Sam]

No I'm telling you the truth. I'm a truth teller to a fault. I am so truthful that sometimes it offends people or pushes them away. You have issues you're projecting on to other people. When you think large numbers of people are lying just because they don't see things as you do, the problem is on your end, not ours.

You seem to have no concept, as I mentioned earlier, of people who have never seen flesh or animal products as "food." This seems to be beyond your frame of perception - in fact it's kind of alarming you don't realize that there are life-long vegans and vegetarians who never missed what they didn't see as "food" to begin with.

It's also strange to me that you see eating Tofurky instead of a turkey as "less options" when you can literally swap one out for the other. Even if you had a variety of food before you were vegan, the fact of the matter is we live in the 21st century and there's literally NOTHING we cannot make vegan, no cuisine, no dish, no dessert, no cultural fast food item, that can't be veganized.

So no, not everyone in developing countries who was raised vegetarian or near to it wishes they could afford meat or more meat, and no they don't pray that they can have cheese if 90 percent of the people in their gene pool are completely lactose intolerant.

You apparently feel deprived or cheated of something, like you're making some great sacrifice. I do not have these feelings. I eat mashed chickpea and avocado sandwiches now instead of egg salad, I eat noodles with peanut butter, Sriracha, soy sauce and lime juice instead of Lipton buttery noodles. I eat babaganoush or tahini instead of tzasiki sauce, and as I've already mentioned, I can eat at just about every restaurant in town, including getting a huge Chicago style vegan dog at the hot dog shop. On holidays I make vegan roasts and mushroom gravy from scratch, and if I want something like cheese, I can order a pizza with vegan cheese, or buy some Chao or Follow Your Heart slices and make a recipe at home.

You just seem a tad "off" to me. I don't want to be mean to you because of it, but it's hard when you keep hysterically insisting enculturated eating is exactly like a math problem, when it's obviously not.

Naturally the richer a nation or person was the more meat they got to eat. The poorer the more vegan stuff they had to eat. Tribal people mostly eat meat. Prehystoric people probably mostly ate meat. Chimps our closest relitives, any chance they get for a scrap of meat they go for it. An animal loving nation of people in the west are still willing to brush aside their empathy in order to eat yummy meat.

Point is meat taste great. To most people! Its probably hard wired, like sweet food tastes great and fatty food tastes great to most people.

I think its a really bad idea to pretend like vegan is better than eating whatever you want (including vegan options derp because its not for most people.

It just comes across as phony, like a sales person trying to sell a rubbish phone contract and they have almost trained themselves to believe they are doing the potential customer a favor, its like they are full of denial and have convinced themselves they are right, and now they are trying to convince the potential customer.

I dont think the same approach should be taken with such an important subject as animal welfare, I think keeping your credibility high so when you do make a truthful objective point (like a large amount animals feel lots of pain and distress in even western farming methods) it isnt just dismissed as another spin job by another fool with a subjective opinion.

Also being credible and objective is respectful and very persuasive in its own right. Especially to the right people, like law makers, judges, scientists, and most of the general public.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Naturally the richer a nation or person was the more meat they got to eat. The poorer the more vegan stuff they had to eat. Tribal people mostly eat meat. Prehystoric people probably mostly ate meat. Chimps our closest relitives, any chance they get for a scrap of meat they go for it. An animal loving nation of people in the west are still willing to brush aside their empathy in order to eat yummy meat.

Point is meat taste great. To most people! Its probably hard wired, like sweet food tastes great and fatty food tastes great to most people.

I think its a really bad idea to pretend like vegan is better than eating whatever you want (including vegan options derp because its not for most people.

It just comes across as phony, like a sales person trying to sell a rubbish phone contract and they have almost trained themselves to believe they are doing the potential customer a favor, its like they are full of denial and have convinced themselves they are right, and now they are trying to convince the potential customer.

I dont think the same approach should be taken with such an important subject as animal welfare, I think keeping your credibility high so when you do make a truthful objective point (like a large amount animals feel lots of pain and distress in even western farming methods) it isnt just dismissed as another spin job by another fool with a subjective opinion.

Also being credible and objective is respectful and very persuasive in its own right. Especially to the right people, like law makers, judges, scientists, and most of the general public.

Your particular form of insanity certainly is creative. The first time I had a vegan chkn ranch wrap at Native Foods I realized it actually tasted better than a chicken wrap. After years of being vegan, cheese smells like vomit to me, fish stinks, bacon is intolerably disgusting smelling and deli meat and cheese slice platters smell like a cats dirty litter box full of ****.

I'm thinking you're a new vegan. You're also wrong on so many levels (about tribal people, ancient eating) that you seem really uneducated which reinforces my perception that you're someone who has been vegan for like two months.

I suggest you read some scientific literature and check your ego before you say something this profoundly stupid again.

No one is being phony you ******* narcissist.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Real talk: alcoholics think alcohol is delicious, smokers think cigarettes are delicious and some Japanese people eat natto for breakfast every morning. You seem to be delusional about your social habitual programming (Pavlov's dog) to get fat and calories from meat. When you learn to feed yourself vegan fat and calories you'll see just how unnatural it is to crave a rotting corpse.

You seem to lack information on human development and behavioralism. It's also really uneducated that you believe paleo diet pseudo sceince over real research that shows our lack of claws and canines, our poor hunting abilities and inability to eat raw meat indicates the possibility of eating much meat in pre-history is a fanciful myth.

 

[Sam]

Real talk: alcoholics think alcohol is delicious, smokers think cigarettes are delicious and some Japanese people eat natto for breakfast every morning. You seem to be delusional about your social habitual programming (Pavlov's dog) to get fat and calories from meat. When you learn to feed yourself vegan fat and calories you'll see just how unnatural it is to crave a rotting corpse.

You seem to lack information on human development and behavioralism. It's also really uneducated that you believe paleo diet pseudo sceince over real research that shows our lack of claws and canines, our poor hunting abilities and inability to eat raw meat indicates the possibility of eating much meat in pre-history is a fanciful myth.

You and many vegans are trying to rewrite science/history in a phony way, in order to try and help animals.

This has and will back fire.

2 reasons.

1) It destroys the credibility making the cause and people less likely to be taken seriously or listened to and therefore it reduces their chances of being successful.

2) No one in any meaningful position in law or government or science is going to buy into the idiotic persuasion attempt or the idiotic fake science.

So it will hurt the cause not help it.

Know that every stroke of your keyboard, every attempt at spinning and persuading the BS you spout is HURTING ANIMALS, not helping!

Truth science and objectivity are the best tools we have as vegans. Our cause is just, the suffering is real, ethics is on our side, why ruin that?

We need more evidence more REAL science, so it can be used in court against the meat industry etc. We dont need to run a smear campaign on real science thats what the meat industry needs to do because they know science isnt on their side and their animals do suffer. They cant turn to science and truth we can. Why ruin that our greatest strength?

It seems vegans are countering the meat industry in the wrong way, with the same tactics reversed, instead of better tactics more suited to their position

The persuasive stuff might work short term, you might fool enough stupid people, (but I doubt it judging by the quality of the lies and spin) but long term it will have a negative effect on the cause. This is very much a long term fight that will go past our life times.

 

[Forest Nymph]

You and many vegans are trying to rewrite science/history in a phony way, in order to try and help animals.

This has and will back fire.

2 reasons.

1) It destroys the credibility making the cause and people less likely to be taken seriously or listened to and therefore it reduces their chances of being successful.

2) No one in any meaningful position in law or government or science is going to buy into the idiotic persuasion attempt or the idiotic fake science.

So it will hurt the cause not help it.

Know that every stroke of your keyboard, every attempt at spinning and persuading the BS you spout is HURTING ANIMALS, not helping!

Truth science and objectivity are the best tools we have as vegans. Our cause is just, the suffering is real, ethics is on our side, why ruin that?

We need more evidence more REAL science, so it can be used in court against the meat industry etc. We dont need to run a smear campaign on real science thats what the meat industry needs to do because they know science isnt on their side and their animals do suffer. They cant turn to science and truth we can. Why ruin that our greatest strength?

It seems vegans are countering the meat industry in the wrong way, with the same tactics reversed, instead of better tactics more suited to their position

The persuasive stuff might work short term, you might fool enough stupid people, (but I doubt it judging by the quality of the lies and spin) but long term it will have a negative effect on the cause. This is very much a long term fight that will go past our life times.

I'm think it's pretty bizarre that you refuse to research evolutionary science of human diet while you keep making these crazy claims that seem to have come straight from a paleo trend cookbook.

No one's lying, you stupid *** hat. If you have a different idea then put it to good use as you see fit, but accusing people of lying or using bad science is just dumb and immature.

I also think you're a new vegan that you even see flesh as food, you're not even fully evolved yet.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Flesh as food is just as ridiculous as the rape as sex or murder as natural argument, just FYI.

 

[idcaver]

Point is meat taste great. To most people! Its probably hard wired, like sweet food tastes great and fatty food tastes great to most people.

I used to think that too. After becoming a vegan I discovered that meat is mostly tasteless. Its main value is that it works well as a foundation on which to add all kinds of flavors. However the same thing can be done to vegetables that have similar consistency. Did you know that pigs are an optional ingredient in bacon? You can substitute mushrooms and the resulting bacon is so good I would say mushrooms are the right way to make bacon and the pigs are just a disgusting substitute.

So that's where your math is wrong. Yes, 6-1 is 5 not 10, but 6-1 is the wrong equation. This SO surprised me when I became a vegan. I thought I'd be giving up so much. But what I found is that I was giving up basically nothing. At the same time I gained new imagination which opened the door to many new and wonderful things. For me the right equation is 6+14=20.

This topic was originally about health benefits. I was already quite fit so there wasn't much to fix. I'm a caver and regularly go underground in extreme environments for long periods of time. Its extremely important to keep energy levels up, especially in cold/wet caves. I worried this would be difficult but it hasn't been a problem at all. If anything I've been able to be more careless about how frequently I "fuel up" while underground. I'll also add that my wife is looking leaner and fitter than she has in many years and I am really enjoying that.

 

[Consistency]

Regarding the topic. It was like living in hell and escaping to a sunny day however I can only eat a cooked ketogenic diet and will cook food that is normally eaten raw.

Food is highly important but so is physical activity so that our body is able to produce those natural growth factors typically found in meat.

You and many vegans are trying to rewrite science/history in a phony way, in order to try and help animals.

This has and will back fire.

2 reasons.

1) It destroys the credibility making the cause and people less likely to be taken seriously or listened to and therefore it reduces their chances of being successful.

2) No one in any meaningful position in law or government or science is going to buy into the idiotic persuasion attempt or the idiotic fake science.

So it will hurt the cause not help it.

Know that every stroke of your keyboard, every attempt at spinning and persuading the BS you spout is HURTING ANIMALS, not helping!

Truth science and objectivity are the best tools we have as vegans. Our cause is just, the suffering is real, ethics is on our side, why ruin that?

We need more evidence more REAL science, so it can be used in court against the meat industry etc. We dont need to run a smear campaign on real science thats what the meat industry needs to do because they know science isnt on their side and their animals do suffer. They cant turn to science and truth we can. Why ruin that our greatest strength?

It seems vegans are countering the meat industry in the wrong way, with the same tactics reversed, instead of better tactics more suited to their position

The persuasive stuff might work short term, you might fool enough stupid people, (but I doubt it judging by the quality of the lies and spin) but long term it will have a negative effect on the cause. This is very much a long term fight that will go past our life times.

I understand based on your posts that we can make mashed potatoes 50 million ways and it is still mashed potatoes however the majority of meat eaters in developed countries mostly eat meat and near zero plants. Even though there is more variety available in an omnivore diet; most omnivores are addicted to cooked meat/eggs/dairy and couldn't even think twice that their meat is deficient in Vitamin A. They will buy fruits and vegetables in the supermarket to show off that they are buying healthy food and then leave them to rot in the fridge or on the counter.

Being objective is seeing that those who eat cow, chicken, pork, etc.. will look like cows, pigs, chickens, etc.. because they ingest the DNA from these animals. Evolutionary speaking... eating meat doesn't make people attractive nor intelligent. I grew up in Italy and we praise tender greens, carrots, cruciferous vegetables, seafood, EVOO and in season fresh hazelnuts, pistachios, pine nuts and walnuts. And whenever the 90 year old seniors would come to the supermarket.. they would buy the veggies and nuts like they were gold.

Vegan companies aren't trying to persuade anyone intentionally. They are trying to make life convenient for those who choose not to promote the enslavement of other living beings. There isn't anyone with a hidden agenda.

The real valuable science has unfortunately been overlooked for a long time because the objective of the formally educated scientists is to create a magical pill.

Overall you're mainly describing the chaos and I can tell that you've never tasted joy because if you truly have and had it taken away from you for a decade; you would use that brain of yours to figure it out instead of complaining like a child that plant foods don't taste as good as cooked flesh.

What's missing?

 

[GraceAmelia]

I think the health differences depend on what vegan foods you are putting into your body! You could be vegan but eating doughnuts and Oreos every day or you could be vegan and fuel your body with fresh veggies, fruit and grains. I definitely feel the health benefits!