Hello from brazil!

[brugluiz]

Hi. guys!

I'm studying about veganism and thinking about stepping into it. I've alraedy read two books about veganism/vegetarianism, but i still have many doubts. Sometimes I find articles and studies that say veganism is very healthy and, other times, I find people saying it's quite unhealthy. Many people say veganism's not sustainable and, in the long term, you'll have health issues.

Recently, I read Leonardo da Vinci by Walter Isaacson and I found out that even Leonardo da Vinci didn't eat meat (he lived until 67). Wim Hof is also vegetarian and he is pretty healthy (he became vegetarian since 14).

The first time I watched Earthlings, I really got very chocked.

I have many issues with the pharmaceutical industry (I still take medicines that I'm currently withdrawing) and now I'm facing problems with the food industry. I have many doubts if the majority of articles and studies that say veganism is bad aren't sponsored by those industries.

I want a healthy lifestyle. I want to change. I want to be more energetic. This is vital for me. But sometimes I get a bit confused.

I hope this forum helps me.

 

[Lou]

What were the two books about veganism? Just curious.

I went vegan for ethical reasons. Only later did I find out that is was a healthy diet. I suppose if my own personal health was the main issue I wouldn't have jumped in so fast. But after reading Eat To Live and How Not to Die I'm pretty convinced a plant-based diet is pretty healthy.

You almost have to discount personal accounts like Leonardo. for every vegetarian that lived to an old ripe age there must be 99 non-vegetarians who did, too. It's better to look at population studies. And the China Study is pretty convincing. The book itself is pretty dry. but if you can watch the movie Forks Over Knives. It gives a good summary and more.

Earthlings is a very tough film to watch. I've tried twice. Never got past the second chapter. My favorite films are Cowspiracy and What the Health. You can get them on Netflix. Or maybe the public library.

Nutrition and health studies are terribly confusing. Big Food and Big Pharma do an excellent job of muddying the waters. It can be difficult to figure out what or who to trust. Sometimes the only things we can trust is our common sense and critical thinking skills.

Anyway, thanks for joining us. there are some really smart people here who really want to help.

 

[brugluiz]

Hi, Lou!

The books I read are Virei vegetariano. E agora? and Alimentação sem carne. Both books were written by dr. Eric Slywitch.

These books you cited seem to be very interesting. Forks and Knives is also very interesting, but I can't watch it until it's released on Google Play or Brazilian Netflix.

I've recently watched What The Health and I wabt to watch Cowspiracy. There are some other documentaries on Netflix that seem to be interesting.

 

[Susanne A.]

Hi! I guess the dispute about veganism being healthy/unhealthy stems from 1) people transitioning too fast to the new diet hence negative effects (it has to be a slow process). 2) it is best to visit a nutritionist or other professional who will help you with finding substitutes for animal products and tell you how much you need to eat for your weight/lifestyle/age because many people just assume they can eat as much as when they were consuming animal products and they don't choose the supplementation correctly. I hope it helps!

 

[Lou]

@BruiLuiz
I googled Eric Slywitch and everything was in Portuguese. just judging by the number of entries he seems to be prolific.

I have no idea what American/English vegan stuff has been translated into Portuguese. You seem to have some original Portuguese stuff already. Plus you seem fluent in English and can probably get thru the English books if you choose.
The English version of the documentary Forks Over Knives is available in America, everywhere. YouTube, iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, and Google. Plus it is at most American libraries. So I'm sure you can find it. It's informative but not a great documentary. If you've seen What The Health, I wouldn't consider it a priority.

In America, Netflix is a great resource for watching vegan movies and documentaries. See if they have Okja.


@Suzanne
"it has to be a slow process" is at least misleading if not just plain untrue. You are probably thinking of the issue with bloating. Which is caused by switching from a low fiber to a high fiber diet. First of all, not everyone is susceptible to this. And not every non-vegan eats a low fiber diet, and not every vegan eats a high fiber diet. Oh, sure its a real thing. but saying "it has to be a slow process" is overstating it.

I'm not advocating an overnight process. I think "a slow process" can be a rationalization for procrastination.

Nutritionists are not necessarily "professional". It varies from state to state. Where I live there is no rules or regulations about nutritionists. Anyone can call themselves one. Yes, there are plenty of good ones but there are lots of hucksters too. Registered Dieticians are licensed, credentialed, and supervised. And even then there are still bad ones. If you see an RD you should have your doctor refer you to one.

IMHO, they are not that essential. Nutrition is not rocket science. There are lots of good articles, books, movies, on vegan nutrition.

I think most of the "dispute" about a vegan diet being unhealthy comes from organizations and corporations that have a dog in the fight. Organizations like the livestock industry, the egg industry, and the dairy industry are constantly trying to convince the general population that thier products are healthy.

 

[brugluiz]

Thank you for the answers, guys!

Hi! I guess the dispute about veganism being healthy/unhealthy stems from 1) people transitioning too fast to the new diet hence negative effects (it has to be a slow process). 2) it is best to visit a nutritionist or other professional who will help you with finding substitutes for animal products and tell you how much you need to eat for your weight/lifestyle/age because many people just assume they can eat as much as when they were consuming animal products and they don't choose the supplementation correctly. I hope it helps!

I'm looking for a good and reliable nutrionist, but I've read some threads here that frighten me a little bit. There are threads of people who started to have diarrhea and who became weaker after starting a vegan diet. I wonder why it happens.

@BruiLuiz
I googled Eric Slywitch and everything was in Portuguese. just judging by the number of entries he seems to be prolific.

I have no idea what American/English vegan stuff has been translated into Portuguese. You seem to have some original Portuguese stuff already. Plus you seem fluent in English and can probably get thru the English books if you choose.
The English version of the documentary Forks Over Knives is available in America, everywhere. YouTube, iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, and Google. Plus it is at most American libraries. So I'm sure you can find it. It's informative but not a great documentary. If you've seen What The Health, I wouldn't consider it a priority.

In America, Netflix is a great resource for watching vegan movies and documentaries. See if they have Okja.


@Suzanne
"it has to be a slow process" is at least misleading if not just plain untrue. You are probably thinking of the issue with bloating. Which is caused by switching from a low fiber to a high fiber diet. First of all, not everyone is susceptible to this. And not every non-vegan eats a low fiber diet, and not every vegan eats a high fiber diet. Oh, sure its a real thing. but saying "it has to be a slow process" is overstating it.

I'm not advocating an overnight process. I think "a slow process" can be a rationalization for procrastination.

Nutritionists are not necessarily "professional". It varies from state to state. Where I live there is no rules or regulations about nutritionists. Anyone can call themselves one. Yes, there are plenty of good ones but there are lots of hucksters too. Registered Dieticians are licensed, credentialed, and supervised. And even then there are still bad ones. If you see an RD you should have your doctor refer you to one.

IMHO, they are not that essential. Nutrition is not rocket science. There are lots of good articles, books, movies, on vegan nutrition.

I think most of the "dispute" about a vegan diet being unhealthy comes from organizations and corporations that have a dog in the fight. Organizations like the livestock industry, the egg industry, and the dairy industry are constantly trying to convince the general population that thier products are healthy.

Dr. Eric Slywitch seems to be legit. There are also some books in Brazilian Portuguese that I want to read (How Not to Die is translated as Comer para não morrer here in Brazil). Sometimes I read some English books, but I still prefer to read them in Brazilian Portuguese (in order to understand it better).

Netflix didn't release Forks Over Knives here in Brazil yet. I've just watched Food Choices and it teaches a lot about our biggest concerns related to vegan diet. We have Okja here as well. Just watched the trailer and it seems to be a very beautiful movie.

 

[Lou]

I think Comer não morrer could go to the top of your list.

I've also seen reports of diarrhea. the most recent one was from a teenage girl who WAS transitioning very slowly. And there are lots of other causes of diarrhea. Also, I can not think of any logical reason a vegan diet would cause diarrhea. Diarrhea is almost always our bodies response to something bad that we need to get rid of.

 

[brugluiz]

I think Comer não morrer could go to the top of your list.

I've also seen reports of diarrhea. the most recent one was from a teenage girl who WAS transitioning very slowly. And there are lots of other causes of diarrhea. Also, I can not think of any logical reason a vegan diet would cause diarrhea. Diarrhea is almost always our bodies response to something bad that we need to get rid of.

Thank you again, @Lou! The correct translation is Comer para não morrer (my mistake).

 

[Nekodaiden]

Welcome, brugluiz!

Just wanted to address the "healthy" aspect. Is veganism healthy or unhealthy? It really depends on what the food is. Motor oil is a non-animal product, and so technically it is Vegan. But it is not food, right? Some of the things we call "food" came from food, and are vegan, but they are shadows of food - which means they are usually missing something (like white rice is missing the bran and germ of the rice, or white sugar is missing the B vitamins and minerals found in the cane)...or the plant based foods are isolates (such as oil, or other plant isolates like "pea protein", and "soy protein"), or what was once a whole food has fermented and contains a natural toxin (such as fruit that has fermented into alcohol).

So a vegan eating stripped grains (white rice, bread, pasta), partial grains that have been concentrated (like high fructose corn syrup), stripped cane sugar (white sugar), fried foods (trans fats in cooked oils), oils in general (No B vitamins, no minerals and no fiber), and even chemical concoctions made in a lab (like artificial sweeteners), or alcohol...

Yes, a vegan consuming those things on a regular basis is not going to be a healthy vegan, and what's more, they are more likely to become deficient in something.

The answer to your query on whether a Vegan diet is healthy is: It really depends, on what (and how much of what) they eat and drink.

But one thing is for sure: A vegan diet excludes all animal products, so everything that is unhealthy about animal products is automatically out of the picture.

What's left is what a Vegan eats/drinks. Currently, I myself drink alcohol. I do not defend this is as healthy. It is not. Not by any stretch. But it's Vegan. Can a Vegan survive on just beer? Absolutely not! But it is Vegan. So are refined grains, sugars, chemicals marketed as food in a lab and a whole bunch of other things. They are vegan only because they don't include or are derived from animals. But that does not make them healthy.

Healthy foods for humans are whole plant foods that God/Nature has provided for us in their whole form, unprocessed, unstripped, filled with life and without decay.

 

[brugluiz]

Welcome, brugluiz!

Just wanted to address the "healthy" aspect. Is veganism healthy or unhealthy? It really depends on what the food is. Motor oil is a non-animal product, and so technically it is Vegan. But it is not food, right? Some of the things we call "food" came from food, and are vegan, but they are shadows of food - which means they are usually missing something (like white rice is missing the bran and germ of the rice, or white sugar is missing the B vitamins and minerals found in the cane)...or the plant based foods are isolates (such as oil, or other plant isolates like "pea protein", and "soy protein"), or what was once a whole food has fermented and contains a natural toxin (such as fruit that has fermented into alcohol).

So a vegan eating stripped grains (white rice, bread, pasta), partial grains that have been concentrated (like high fructose corn syrup), stripped cane sugar (white sugar), fried foods (trans fats in cooked oils), oils in general (No B vitamins, no minerals and no fiber), and even chemical concoctions made in a lab (like artificial sweeteners), or alcohol...

Yes, a vegan consuming those things on a regular basis is not going to be a healthy vegan, and what's more, they are more likely to become deficient in something.

The answer to your query on whether a Vegan diet is healthy is: It really depends, on what (and how much of what) they eat and drink.

But one thing is for sure: A vegan diet excludes all animal products, so everything that is unhealthy about animal products is automatically out of the picture.

What's left is what a Vegan eats/drinks. Currently, I myself drink alcohol. I do not defend this is as healthy. It is not. Not by any stretch. But it's Vegan. Can a Vegan survive on just beer? Absolutely not! But it is Vegan. So are refined grains, sugars, chemicals marketed as food in a lab and a whole bunch of other things. They are vegan only because they don't include or are derived from animals. But that does not make them healthy.

Healthy foods for humans are whole plant foods that God/Nature has provided for us in their whole form, unprocessed, unstripped, filled with life and without decay.

Yeah, I totally agree that eating junk food won't make you healthier, even if you're in a vegan diet. The quality of food that you eat is very important. The books by Dr. Eric Slywitch that I read adressed this kind of thing.