Help with seitan..to knead or not

[silva]

I came across this recipe-which sounds great, but has things about it that I thought ruined some seitan I tried. Like kneading 20 minutes!
I've made really good seitan by only kneading until everything came together-very minimal.
When I kneading one for about5 minutes, as the recipe read, it was tough.
The other thing is the prolonged slow cooking time.
And why do you need to wrap in cheesecloth? Wouldn't it hold up without it?

 

[KLS52]

I think wrapping it holds it so that it comes out more dense. I've don't both, wrap and unwrapped and the unwrapped tends to 'grow' a bit where the wrapped does not. This has been my experience.
I'm not sure about the kneading part...I hate to knead and it's the reason I don't make seitan that often. Maybe I'll try it your way and skip the kneading.
The best seitan I ever made was when I cooked it about 30 minutes then had to leave to go to my daughter's house. I brought it with me and continued to cook it there for at least another 30-45 minutes. It came out really good!

 

[Dedalus]

We don't knead very long - it becomes impossible after too much time. And we never use cheesecloth...not sure why that matters.

We do however cook for awhile. We drop in cold water and boil from that point.

 

[shyvas]

I think wrapping it holds it so that it comes out more dense. I've don't both, wrap and unwrapped and the unwrapped tends to 'grow' a bit where the wrapped does not. This has been my experience.
I'm not sure about the kneading part...I hate to knead and it's the reason I don't make seitan that often. Maybe I'll try it your way and skip the kneading.
The best seitan I ever made was when I cooked it about 30 minutes then had to leave to go to my daughter's house. I brought it with me and continued to cook it there for at least another 30-45 minutes. It came out really good!

That's good to know. I'm still at the stage of experimenting with seitan.

 

[Dedalus]

I think wrapping it holds it so that it comes out more dense. I've don't both, wrap and unwrapped and the unwrapped tends to 'grow' a bit where the wrapped does not. This has been my experience.

This is something I'd like to try. Do you cook as a whole wrapped in cheesecloth or do you slice into slabs and wrap those?

 

[PTree15]

I haven't used cheesecloth, but I used tin foil and baked it whole. It looked like a log. It was for sandwiches and such.

 

[kibbleforlola]

I've only made seitan once, and I didn't like the way it came out. Made the recipe from Vegan with a Vengeance, and I think I didn't like it because it called for weird flavors, like lemon zest. Lemon zest in seitan, really? I grew up eating the stuff, though, I come from a community of seitan munchers. My mom has recipes from old church ladies laying around, perhaps I'll ask her to send them to me.

I did assist someone making it once, and she did it the hard way, by taking regular flour and "washing" the starch out. It took all morning, and was a very involved process. But I think it's probably the best I've ever had.

 

[silva]

I made this one -
http://caribbeanvegan.wordpress.com/2010/12/17/holiday-ham-recipe-from-caribbean-vegan/

I've made it before, without any kneading and loved it. This time I did, but only a few minutes after it came together because when I knead it instantly starts to fall apart. Trying to shape it was already near impossible. I couldn't even pinch the separations together. I baked it over a broiler pan with water, shaped into a log in foil, for 40 minutes. It came out terribly rubbery. Like it would make ideal shoe insoles!
Anyway, it tastes terrific! It's the absolute best marinade mix, if you like the taste of holiday ham.
I wish I could remember just how it was the last time. I usually make seitan that also calls for pureed beans.

Bread gets lighter with more kneading. It feels almost completely the opposite of when you knead seitan.
I'm not getting it.

 

[mlp]

I knead only long enough for some gluten *threads* to form. I also much prefer the texture of it baked (no water bath) - boiled or steamed has a rubbery consistency that I don't like. I shape it into a log (or sausages, if I'm making sausages) and then wrap it in foil and bake it about 90 minutes for a log, at 325.

Also, if you substitute some chickpea or soy flour for some of the gluten, it reduces the rubberiness, regardless of cooking method.

 

[PTree15]

Oh, I like the chickpea flour idea.

 

[shyvas]

I knead only long enough for some gluten *threads* to form. I also much prefer the texture of it baked (no water bath) - boiled or steamed has a rubbery consistency that I don't like. I shape it into a log (or sausages, if I'm making sausages) and then wrap it in foil and bake it about 90 minutes for a log, at 325.

Also, if you substitute some chickpea or soy flour for some of the gluten, it reduces the rubberiness, regardless of cooking method.

mlp, didn't you post a recipe for baked seitan some time ago ? I would like to try your recipe as I now have
my oven working.

 

[shyvas]

Oh, I like the chickpea flour idea.

I love chickpea flour and have just bought a whole kilo. I'm planning on making some Socca as the
it is cold overhere. I'm in need of some comfort food to get me through the winter.

 

[shyvas]

mlp, didn't you post a recipe for baked seitan some time ago ? I would like to try your recipe as I now have
my oven working.

Sorry, it was silva who posted a recipe for baked seitan. Here is the link to the thread. It would be a great idea
to post it in the Recipe section if you don't mind.

Any Tips for Making Seitan ?

 

[silva]

Sorry, it was silva who posted a recipe for baked seitan. Here is the link to the thread. It would be a great idea
to post it in the Recipe section if you can.

http://forum.veggieviews.com/threads/any-tips-for-making-seitan.616/#post-18767

Thanks for that! I forgot that recipe, it worked great!
I'll definitely use the flavors from caribbean vegan ham in that one!

 

[shyvas]

Thanks for that! I forgot that recipe, it worked great!
I'll definitely use the flavors from caribbean vegan ham in that one!

Don't worry, I'm the same with forgetting where various recipes are !
That is the reason why we are requesting that the recipes should also be posted in the recipe section.

 

[KLS52]

This is something I'd like to try. Do you cook as a whole wrapped in cheesecloth or do you slice into slabs and wrap those?

If I wrap it (in foil) I cook it whole. Otherwise, if I boil it I cut it into 4-5 chunks.

 

[Renee1]

Does anyone have a recipe that isn't for ham? And more than one (not the post punk kitchen's)? That they've tried? I can google, obviously, but I am curious about experience.

 

[ledboots]

Does anyone have a recipe that isn't for ham? And more than one (not the post punk kitchen's)? That they've tried? I can google, obviously, but I am curious about experience.

I have made this one (chloes kitchen originally) and it came out pretty good, but needed more spices. http://7shadesofvegan.blogspot.com/2012/07/homemade-seitan-thats-easy-and-delicious.html?m=1

 

[PTree15]

I have to find the link, but I made some that uses more poultry spices for a buffalo nuggets recipe. I like the way it tastes, so I make it even if I'm not going to use it for buffalo nuggets. It has a nice flavor. It awesome for stir-fries, quesadillas and cheez-steaks (especially with hot sauce and Daiya shreds).

ETA: Here it is. Just scroll down and you'll see the recipe for the wings, the sauce and bleu cheez dressing.
http://www.thebloomingplatter.com/v...-creamy-blue-cheez-dressing-and-celery-sticks

 

[Everleigh]

Does anyone have a recipe that isn't for ham? And more than one (not the post punk kitchen's)? That they've tried? I can google, obviously, but I am curious about experience.

I made something like this a while ago and it came out ok http://forkableblog.com/?p=28 I have problems finding vital wheat gluten and thought it would be good to try it without.It wasn't this exact recipe but was very similar. Messy lol.But cheap.