Higher state of conscious awareness leading to alienation?

[Cory]

When I talk about my vegan lifestyle openly, I find people are largely not receptive towards it. Even my best friends, whom I always considered intelligent, and instantly felt a connection to. One of my best friends, I explained to her, the process by which dairy is made. It's almost as if it went in one ear and out the other.

I realize I was a vegetarian (prior to becoming vegan) and always cared very deeply for animals (she loves animals too, though even now as I type it I think "what a hypocrite") but once I heard the next sentence, I instantly threw out the block of cheese I had sitting in my fridge....

"Cows need to be kept pregnant in order to produce milk."

Of course they do. Female mammals don't produce milk all the time. Logic tells you that, like a human female, milk is for the baby. I can't believe I had been manipulated by this industry. I remember as I kid, the commercials that shoved CALCIUM in our faces. Little did I know green leafy vegetables have the highest calcium content. Kale smoothie. Easy. Done. Got my calcium.

Dairy is a violation of natural order. It's the complete and total perversion of nature. I find myself more angry about this then the actual slaughter of the animal. That said, as I come into this higher state of awareness as a vegan, I realize there is no longer anything to hide behind. I'm emotionally raw, vulnerable. I have nothing with which to shield myself. And I feel totally alienated. Both by my friends (my mom has been amazing - she will go vegan), and by new people I meet. It leads me to feel withdrawn.

Has anyone else experienced this and how do you contend with it.

 

[Second Summer]

Welcome to the board, Cory!

I had similar experiences when I went vegetarian and later vegan. After a while the sense of alienation passed somewhat for me. Veganism has become a practice which for the most part remains private. My friends and colleagues know I'm a vegan, but it's not something I often bring up in conversation. It's also not something I think about constantly any more. Another thing that has helped was finding a vegan girlfriend, moving in together etc.

By the way, I think it's interesting what language we use to talk about veganism. "Higher state of awareness", "violation of natural order" etc. are phrases that appeal to me, but then I'm already a vegan, and with some elitist tendencies as well. It might not be the best choice of words when talking to the average person, though. Well, it depends who you're talking to.

 

[Blobbenstein]

nothing can really violate the natural order, as all parts of reality are parts of nature, but I know what you mean; a subset of nature....

 

[ledboots]

Hi Cory and welcome.

I am vegan. I just want to point out that a cow can produce milk for years after calving once, as long as she is milked regularly. That's what family farms used to do.

In today's horrific dairy factory "farming", of course that is not the practice, as they are maximizing profits at the animals' expense. And don't forget the whole baby boy cows are veal thing.

People feel guilt and many deep down know that it is wrong and revolting to eat meat. They will fight you tooth and nail about your lifestyle, mostly because if you were not vegan, then they wouldn't have to think about another, more ethical, way of life being possible...sometimes they do ask you about it later. Notice how these conversations/attacks often happen when it is mealtime...

Some people in my real life who have gone vegetarian have amazed me--they were the very ones who fought me the hardest on my journey.

Cognitive dissonance from wiki:

"In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.[1][2]

Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable and they are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance, as well as actively avoiding situations and information which are likely to increase it.[1]"

 

[Clueless Git]

Has anyone else experienced this and how do you contend with it.

Yah, been there.

I used to try and teach pigs to whistle, as it were. It's true that it serves only to annoy the pigs and wastes your time as well.

Best thing to do, I think, is just to play the whistle on your own and wait for any pigs who actualy want to learn to whistle to come.

That and learn to live with the frustrations of pigs who can't understand why you won't share their swill and why you won't say "Oink!"

 

[Moll Flanders]

When I talk about my vegan lifestyle openly, I find people are largely not receptive towards it. Even my best friends, whom I always considered intelligent, and instantly felt a connection to. One of my best friends, I explained to her, the process by which dairy is made. It's almost as if it went in one ear and out the other.

And I feel totally alienated. Both by my friends (my mom has been amazing - she will go vegan), and by new people I meet. It leads me to feel withdrawn.

I think a lot of people feel this way when they first go vegan. I found it very helpful to join forums and even more helpful was to meet other vegan people at meet-ups. That was what made the first few years bearable as a vegan.

 

[PTree15]

Hi, Cory, and welcome to VV.
Indeed, I experienced much of what you mentioned at the outset. Some of my friends were downright hostile about it, but most have at least accepted my choice, and we just agree to disagree. I definitely will discuss veganism with those who are genuinely interested in my reasons and whatnot, but I refuse to be baited, especially at meal times, which happens more than I'd like. I usually politely decline by noting that what I would need to say would not be proper meal time talk and would make them ill. The conversation usually ends there, with a footnote that if they are interested, I'd be happy to talk to them about it after the meal. It can indeed be frustrating and alienating, but I try to remind myself that I once stood where they stood, so I try to be patient as much as possible. I admit, though, that the longer I am vegan, the less patience I have for the hypocrisy of their love of (certain) animals while chowing down on dead animals.

 

[Cory]

Hi, Cory, and welcome to VV.
Indeed, I experienced much of what you mentioned at the outset. Some of my friends were downright hostile about it, but most have at least accepted my choice, and we just agree to disagree. I definitely will discuss veganism with those who are genuinely interested in my reasons and whatnot, but I refuse to be baited, especially at meal times, which happens more than I'd like. I usually politely decline by noting that what I would need to say would not be proper meal time talk and would make them ill. The conversation usually ends there, with a footnote that if they are interested, I'd be happy to talk to them about it after the meal. It can indeed be frustrating and alienating, but I try to remind myself that I once stood where they stood, so I try to be patient as much as possible. I admit, though, that the longer I am vegan, the less patience I have for the hypocrisy of their love of (certain) animals while chowing down on dead animals.

I really don't have the same patience for the hypocrisy, because of my age. I went vegetarian when I was just 14. My mother and father and sister were still eating like they had been. Although, they were not quite on the SAD diet. My family always ate organic and my mom and dad switched to a local butcher shop where the cows were grass fed and lived in the backyard kinda thing. This made things easier since snacks were never Doritos and Dew growing up. I was never allowed to eat that stuff. Still, I figured this out at 14 years of age, growing up in a religion that said "God put animals here for us," and without the approval of basically anyone besides my mom. It only took me until I was 23 to figure out veganism was my natural diet.

I'm not as forgiving because I don't think I did anything special to become vegetarian, and later vegan. I just got on Google.

 

[PTree15]

I really don't have the same patience for the hypocrisy, because of my age. I went vegetarian when I was just 14. My mother and father and sister were still eating like they had been. Although, they were not quite on the SAD diet. My family always ate organic and my mom and dad switched to a local butcher shop where the cows were grass fed and lived in the backyard kinda thing. This made things easier since snacks were never Doritos and Dew growing up. I was never allowed to eat that stuff. Still, I figured this out at 14 years of age, growing up in a religion that said "God put animals here for us," and without the approval of basically anyone besides my mom. It only took me until I was 23 to figure out veganism was my natural diet.

I'm not as forgiving because I don't think I did anything special to become vegetarian, and later vegan. I just got on Google.

That's great for you, but not everyone was as fortunate to be raised in such a manner, especially us older folks who were raised under a completely different mindset in a very different societal environment and without the benefit of Google and the now myriad varieties and availability of vegan/vegetarian foods at the local grocery store. It took me quite a while to go vegan after being vegetarian for many years, so yeah, I do wish I'd seen the light earlier, as they say, but I'm glad I finally did.

 

[Cory]

I guess I am mostly talking about young people. I work at a young place, and live in a young environment. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people my own age who are steps away from farmers markets and whole foods and have Google available at their finger tips, and vegan articles available to read, trending on Buzzfeed. At that point it becomes willful ignorance, and then furthermore becomes willful idiocy when McDonalds or Jimmy Johns delivery is for lunch.

 

[Trinity]

Cognitive dissonance!

I went vegetarian when I was 14 and vegan when I was 20 years old (which was 20 years ago now). I used to believe that once people learned the facts they'd embrace veganism. Doesn't work like that - sadly. Going vegan is a complete lifestyle change, so it is no wonder why people cling on to their less compassionate beliefs - it's easier for most people to deny the truth than step out and push the envelope. Modern culture has been drip-fed non-compassion in a way that totally removes people from the reality of it. I think that people just can't get their heads around it.

I have found another way to reach people though... by a consistent shining example of veganism. There are different ways for everyone. I am a chef and vegan recipe developer, so I've found that once people start tasting really good vegan food they become naturally respectful and curious about all these other issues... I know a lot of people who have gone vegan this way. BUT you do have to be patient In my experience, most people need to take it one step at a time.

 

[Tom L.]

I am vegan. I just want to point out that a cow can produce milk for years after calving once, as long as she is milked regularly. That's what family farms used to do.

In today's horrific dairy factory "farming", of course that is not the practice, as they are maximizing profits at the animals' expense. And don't forget the whole baby boy cows are veal thing.

People feel guilt and many deep down know that it is wrong and revolting to eat meat. They will fight you tooth and nail about your lifestyle, mostly because if you were not vegan, then they wouldn't have to think about another, more ethical, way of life being possible...sometimes they do ask you about it later. Notice how these conversations/attacks often happen when it is mealtime...

Some people in my real life who have gone vegetarian have amazed me--they were the very ones who fought me the hardest on my journey.

Cognitive dissonance from wiki:

"In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.[1][2]

Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable and they are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance, as well as actively avoiding situations and information which are likely to increase it.[1]"

(Bold emphasis mine) That would amaze me too. Maybe your info about cognitive dissonance explains it: "LEDBOOTS... STOPPIT! STOPPIT! YOU'RE MAKING ME THINK!!!" Maybe people wouldn't get so upset if we offered them two different pills, like in "The Matrix". <<<"Matrix" smiley, sort of...)

Edited to add- welcome, Cory.

 

[Trinity]

Maybe people wouldn't get so upset if we offered them two different pills, like in "The Matrix". <

People don't feel threatened if they get to choose for themselves. But most people would still take the red pill and stay in blissful ignorance.

 

[Blobbenstein]

People don't feel threatened if they get to choose for themselves. But most people would still take the red pill and stay in blissful ignorance.

blue pill.

 

[Trinity]

blue pill.

What are you on about?

Oh yes... I meant the BLUE pill!!!! Staying in ignorance. LOL!

 

[Tom L.]

blue pill.

I couldn't remember which one was which. Thanks!