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How vegan are you - 2
- Thread starter Nekodaiden
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OP
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I guess I’m going to be the first to man up.
I’d forsake being Vegan and kill, cook and eat the fish to survive until the opportunity to get
adequate calories, vitamins, minerals and aminos was presented. Maybe from another ship with food that we encountered or upon reaching land.
I wouldn’t like it – I’d probably throw up a few times before my body got used to animal products again, and I’d know that I was eating an inferior food to what my body prefers – but I would do it to survive until I didn’t have to.
There was no “gotcha” underlying motive for my question as some have outright stated or insinuated. I think maybe these people are projecting. There are some popular people on social media that push the line of thought that “he/she was never vegan” if they went back to eating animals. This is just false. They were vegan for however long they abstained, and stopped being one when they made a decision to take part in eating them.
My original post comes on the heels of a few previous posts in another thread where I disagreed with a statement of what veganism was. People wondering/speculating as to my motive should probably read those posts. I do not believe that the life of a fish,bird, cow, bear, hungry wolf is equal to a human’s life, and because I don’t I would act appropriately to protect my own as well as another human’s life. The person who would * not * do this because they think all life is equal could easily find themselves in a situation where they are guilty of murder by inaction. Like as in, a bear is attacking your travel mate, and you have a gun and do nothing to stop that. Maybe because the bear was hungry. That person is a disgrace to their own species.
I’d forsake being Vegan and kill, cook and eat the fish to survive until the opportunity to get
adequate calories, vitamins, minerals and aminos was presented. Maybe from another ship with food that we encountered or upon reaching land.
I wouldn’t like it – I’d probably throw up a few times before my body got used to animal products again, and I’d know that I was eating an inferior food to what my body prefers – but I would do it to survive until I didn’t have to.
There was no “gotcha” underlying motive for my question as some have outright stated or insinuated. I think maybe these people are projecting. There are some popular people on social media that push the line of thought that “he/she was never vegan” if they went back to eating animals. This is just false. They were vegan for however long they abstained, and stopped being one when they made a decision to take part in eating them.
My original post comes on the heels of a few previous posts in another thread where I disagreed with a statement of what veganism was. People wondering/speculating as to my motive should probably read those posts. I do not believe that the life of a fish,bird, cow, bear, hungry wolf is equal to a human’s life, and because I don’t I would act appropriately to protect my own as well as another human’s life. The person who would * not * do this because they think all life is equal could easily find themselves in a situation where they are guilty of murder by inaction. Like as in, a bear is attacking your travel mate, and you have a gun and do nothing to stop that. Maybe because the bear was hungry. That person is a disgrace to their own species.
Thank you. I wouldn't be too concerned what other people think. This is a message board, and all we can see from people's lives is what they share here. Not everyone is honest, and after a while you can pick up things from what they say. Be careful what ideas you adopt just out of fear or favor of *perceived* public opinion. There are at least 2 people on this mb who do not like me and try to use group think to influence public opinion.
In the past, I have played some roleplaying games, and even though the rules here are very limitative, I started searching for loopholes, because I didn't want to just and simply state that "my chararcter just eats the friggin' fish 'cause there are no other options."
Options are limitless...You have to bend the laws of reality first, though.
BUT what would I do? After starving, casting spells and praying. If nothing works, I'd eat the fish. Or die, because famine, violence and sickness spreads around the ship.
...Some people don't like you? I think that it can be fixed. Maybe you guys could talk it through?
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OP
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Oh, I'm fine with being disliked by certain people. In general, I'm pretty straightforward and dislike anyone (vegan or no) who participates in psychological manipulation and mind games to feed their narcissism, grab for power and influence. Durianrider is one such person. I do not know if he posts here, but while I do believe he probably is vegan, I'm not under any illusion that he is in any way a person of good character/ethics. The truth people try to hide eventually comes out.
You seem like a very strong person, I can respect that.
In my life I have also encountered that kind of people, who viciously attack, but instead of attacking honestly, they use mind games and manipulation. It can be very harmful and affect even after getting away from them.
You surely are very straightforward, and in that sense you remind me of my brother. Sometimes, his aggressive attitude makes me feel like he is being disrespectful towards my beliefs and thoughts, and is maybe having a different opinion just out of spite.
But he is not trying anything like that, he is simply being honest and not afraid to say what he thinks.
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TofuRobot
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I pretty much answered this question following that comment, but no. I don't don't know what I would do if i were starving to death, period, because I've never been in that situation before. I DO know i can go at least a week with nothing but water, because I *have* done that before (and i was not remotely "starving to death").
TofuRobot
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Why would you take the time to cook it? I mean, if youryo on the brink of starvation, would you even have the energy (or want to expend it if you did)?
TofuRobot
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TofuRobot
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Oh, I forgot to answer to the other question. Would I also be part of the KILLING and HUNTING? I can't even watch fishing, when it's shown on documents or movies, so I'd try my best to get to the cleaning team: I'd gladly do the dishes, scrub the floors and dust the surfaces.
But if someone would tell me to kill a fish, on that ship, where there is no way out, unless I kill myself... I would hunt and kill the fish. And even though I cringe when hunters say that they respect their pray, in that situation, I'd try to tell myself the same.
Why I would comply, is that I wouldn't want to attract any unwanted attention, as a female I have to take care and protect myself, even before anything starts to happen. So I'd hunt and kill and pretend, that nothing troubles or disgust me.
- When I'd cast spells or pray, I assumed that I'd have my own cabin for that.
And it would be nice if a pod of dolphins would swim me to a carbivore paradise. Would that be plausible? If I'd jump to the sea and dolphins would rescue me and then they'd take me to an island full of banana, walnut, potato and carrot fields?
It's weird that I believe killing to be very hard, but eating the victim (when hungry) would be easier?
As a vegan newbie I saw nightmares, over and over again, of a same kind of scenario, but it was war. Me and other survivors were starting to eat in our shelter. But we had only managed to scavenge canned meat soup. The main thought in my head was that in this situation, it would be ungrateful to decline from eating, but if I ate, I'd also feel terrible. So there was no way to win, only to survive or die.
It's impossible situation. The unprepared make horrible things in the name of surviving, and even survivalists, who have been prepared for most SHTF situations, can't be prepared for absolutely everything.
But if someone would tell me to kill a fish, on that ship, where there is no way out, unless I kill myself... I would hunt and kill the fish. And even though I cringe when hunters say that they respect their pray, in that situation, I'd try to tell myself the same.
Why I would comply, is that I wouldn't want to attract any unwanted attention, as a female I have to take care and protect myself, even before anything starts to happen. So I'd hunt and kill and pretend, that nothing troubles or disgust me.
- When I'd cast spells or pray, I assumed that I'd have my own cabin for that.
And it would be nice if a pod of dolphins would swim me to a carbivore paradise. Would that be plausible? If I'd jump to the sea and dolphins would rescue me and then they'd take me to an island full of banana, walnut, potato and carrot fields?
It's weird that I believe killing to be very hard, but eating the victim (when hungry) would be easier?
As a vegan newbie I saw nightmares, over and over again, of a same kind of scenario, but it was war. Me and other survivors were starting to eat in our shelter. But we had only managed to scavenge canned meat soup. The main thought in my head was that in this situation, it would be ungrateful to decline from eating, but if I ate, I'd also feel terrible. So there was no way to win, only to survive or die.
It's impossible situation. The unprepared make horrible things in the name of surviving, and even survivalists, who have been prepared for most SHTF situations, can't be prepared for absolutely everything.
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I've never had to choose between my child's life and killing some fish.
I don't even have a child.
I won't insult myself by pretending this is beyond my moral reasoning to work out ahead of time.
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One thing this thread has communicated towards me is that too many people have this idea of what the word vegan means that is *outside of diet*. Two people have said that basically one can be a vegan and eat animal products, and others have agreed with that statement. Granted, circumstances, extreme ones. But what it tells me is that there is still a disconnect between the kinds of foods (of plant origin or animal) that people consume daily and how they view the word "vegan".
Why on earth would anyone want to retain a label that basically describes a diet of abstinence while knowingly and willingly * not * abstaining? The only conclusion I can come to that might be correct is that some of them have been eating animal products during the time they were Vegan, and yet saying they have been vegan for X years.
Just an observation.
And another. I've been called a troll either directly or through insinuation 3 times in this thread. I can handle that, but I'm pointing it out because if I had used that term directed to someone else, I'm almost sure to get barked at by our resident guard dog, as I have in the past.
Why on earth would anyone want to retain a label that basically describes a diet of abstinence while knowingly and willingly * not * abstaining? The only conclusion I can come to that might be correct is that some of them have been eating animal products during the time they were Vegan, and yet saying they have been vegan for X years.
Just an observation.
And another. I've been called a troll either directly or through insinuation 3 times in this thread. I can handle that, but I'm pointing it out because if I had used that term directed to someone else, I'm almost sure to get barked at by our resident guard dog, as I have in the past.
Jamie in Chile
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I don't agree with this at all. Fish have the ability to suffer pain and we would have to kill a significant number of them for one person to survive for months.
If a person were to decide not to inflict that pain and die instead, I actually think that would be an unselfish and noble decision. I'd totally respect it and I wouldn't think it would be idiotic.
I think it's a genuine moral dilemna and will be seen as such in the future vegan world. It's just so far from the norm today to think like this.
This used to be a really nice warm, supportive forum, but I have noticed as it has got more popular, that it has become a place where I don't spend so much time. The atmosphere has changed and there is too much crap on it like this. What has this got to do with support, it is trying to undermine, and is clearly trolling, I wouldn't usually respond to threads like this, but soon I won't bother with this forum at all.
Jamie in Chile
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Sally, take a break and come back after a few weeks. It's possible that the threads or posts you don't like are currently temporary.
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Original thread I based this off:
https://veganforum.org/threads/how-vegan-are-you.1903/
My question is loosely associated with the first scenario (#1), asked there. No one in that thread said anything about "trolling", undermining or assumption of motive. So why here?
Even though I could see an out in the situation described in that thread, I asked myself in what situation I might be in where I didn't have an out.
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