I sometimes feel like hating the whole human race!!

[Vegan Dogs]

 

[KinVegan]

100% agreed

 

[Nekodaiden]

I wish I had an intelligent response to this thread. But, I have no great insights.

When things look bad, I think, "Well at least I am not a pig who lives on a factory farm."

Haha, this gave me a chuckle. Some would argue that we are on a much more sophisticated factory farm. A farm without fences, except for those built for the mind..

 

[Irene Adler]

Hello all

I think I am dangerously close to the third stage.... !

 

[Hope J.]

So disgusted with whats going on with the vaccine right now. HOW in the world can a MOUSE even be close to our genes! They're not. So test the vaccines out on PEOPLE. We're the ones with it. But obviously that would mean no more abuse on the mice. Or any animal. If we are the ones who have it, doesnt it make sense to try it on us instead of injecting animals with it? Not happy right now. All in the name of money. I know im not taking it for the Wuhan Flu. Ill take my chances.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I sometimes wonder, would it make sense to test out new vaccines and medicines on the people that are dying? Once someone has got to the stage where they are more likely to die than not without the vaccine, would the risk of horrible and unexpected side effects or the vaccine; even causing severe pain or death perhaps be outweighted by the possible benefit of the vaccine?

 

[Max Caulfield]

So disgusted with whats going on with the vaccine right now. HOW in the world can a MOUSE even be close to our genes! They're not. So test the vaccines out on PEOPLE. We're the ones with it. But obviously that would mean no more abuse on the mice. Or any animal. If we are the ones who have it, doesnt it make sense to try it on us instead of injecting animals with it? Not happy right now. All in the name of money. I know im not taking it for the Wuhan Flu. Ill take my chances.

Actually, it pretty much is, at least sufficiently similar so that testing medicine for an example can effectively to establish impact on humans, there are many differences granted but those are taken into account.

Using humans in experimentation unless you're a totalitarian country also won't cut it due to variety of laws that would be violated through such experimentation. It also it would be impractical to experiment on humans in cases it could be efficiently be done on mice, humans are large (meaning you couldn't transport them in quantities as mice and require larger mean of containment) , would likely put more resistance than mice, would be incredibly controversial in society, value of human to society vastly outweighs that of mice. Of course, results of testing would be more accurate but it would create whole range of issues.

So really, if choice comes down to human and and mice, human value exceeds that of a mice, at very least in potential.

 

[Hope J.]

Actually, it pretty much is, at least sufficiently similar so that testing medicine for an example can effectively to establish impact on humans, there are many differences granted but those are taken into account.

Using humans in experimentation unless you're a totalitarian country also won't cut it due to variety of laws that would be violated through such experimentation. It also it would be impractical to experiment on humans in cases it could be efficiently be done on mice, humans are large (meaning you couldn't transport them in quantities as mice and require larger mean of containment) , would likely put more resistance than mice, would be incredibly controversial in society, value of human to society vastly outweighs that of mice. Of course, results of testing would be more accurate but it would create whole range of issues.

So really, if choice comes down to human and and mice, human value exceeds that of a mice, at very least in potential.

So still do it on people that have it. Animals arent even CLOSE to having our genes. Makes no sense. Animals cant speak like us to say yes or no if they feel good or if its helping. Theres no excuse for it. NONE. People just want to abuse animals and get paid for it.

 

[Max Caulfield]

So still do it on people that have it. Animals arent even CLOSE to having our genes. Makes no sense. Animals cant speak like us to say yes or no if they feel good or if its helping. Theres no excuse for it. NONE. People just want to abuse animals and get paid for it.

That would defeat whole point, point of medicine is to improve health by experimenting on a test subject you endanger test subject to unknown effects of treatment. Again, they're sufficiently close depending on specific animal to reliably to create models and sufficient to conduct reliable experimentation , any differences can be simply taken into account by researches. So it absolutely makes sense as relevant similarities are sufficient to conduct at least some of medical experimentation. That's not going into many other practical benefits of mice as test subjects, some of which I've noted in previous comments. Yeah, I'm dubious of notion that researchers are simply sadists, instead you know conducting valuable research through effective methodology, as for individual motives of each researcher I don't know and it doesn't really matter in the first place. So there is an excuse, as mice make for most practical test subjects, albeit perhaps not most accurate possible and not testing would prevent progress and acquiring knowledge of some of scientific fields related to living organisms that would save and improve many lives in the future.

 

[Hope J.]

That would defeat whole point, point of medicine is to improve health by experimenting on a test subject you endanger test subject to unknown effects of treatment. Again, they're sufficiently close depending on specific animal to reliably to create models and sufficient to conduct reliable experimentation , any differences can be simply taken into account by researches. So it absolutely makes sense as relevant similarities are sufficient to conduct at least some of medical experimentation. That's not going into many other practical benefits of mice as test subjects, some of which I've noted in previous comments. Yeah, I'm dubious of notion that researchers are simply sadists, instead you know conducting valuable research through effective methodology, as for individual motives of each researcher I don't know and it doesn't really matter in the first place. So there is an excuse, as mice make for most practical test subjects, albeit perhaps not most accurate possible and not testing would prevent progress and acquiring knowledge of some of scientific fields related to living organisms that would save and improve many lives in the future.

So in lamen terms its ok to test on animals no matter that they feel pain and are in agony. WE have the disease not the ANIMALS.

 

[Hope J.]

I sometimes wonder, would it make sense to test out new vaccines and medicines on the people that are dying? Once someone has got to the stage where they are more likely to die than not without the vaccine, would the risk of horrible and unexpected side effects or the vaccine; even causing severe pain or death perhaps be outweighted by the possible benefit of the vaccine?

I agree. We need to be tested with the drugs not animals.

 

[Max Caulfield]

So in lamen terms its ok to test on animals no matter that they feel pain and are in agony. WE have the disease not the ANIMALS.

Yes, in absence of better method this is the best method to stick to due to reasons mentioned, at very least until we find a better one. Yes, people have various diseases and point is to cure people from those diseases not to kill or inflict damage on them in search of it. Alternatives are even less appealing.

 

[Hope J.]

Yes, in absence of better method this is the best method to stick to due to reasons mentioned, at very least until we find a better one. Yes, people have various diseases and point is to cure people from those diseases not to kill or inflict damage on them in search of it. Alternatives are even less appealing.

Sorry thats just an excuse to be able to get paid big bucks to abuse animals. There are really much more HUMANE methods out there already. These abusers just dont want to use them. They wouldnt be able to get their thrill if they did. There are so much more advanced methods.

 

[Max Caulfield]

HUMANE methods out there already. These abusers just dont want to use them. They wouldnt be able to get their thrill if they did. There are so much more advanced

More like solid justification to conduct medical experiments on animals to create effective and safe methods of curing various afflictions. Like what? Again, I don't buy sadist researchers idea for reasons mentioned.

 

[Hope J.]

More like solid justification to conduct medical experiments on animals to create effective and safe methods of curing various afflictions. Like what? Again, I don't buy sadist researchers idea for reasons mentioned.

Well the animals arent in it for fun. I guess im just too far on protecting animals and standing up for them. Im just too much an animal person that i dont like them to be harmed for fun. After all they so have feelings too.

 

[Hope J.]

Well the animals arent in it for fun. I guess im just too far on protecting animals and standing up for them. Im just too much an animal person that i dont like them to be harmed for fun. After all they so have feelings too.

Also

 

[Max Caulfield]

Well the animals arent in it for fun. I guess im just too far on protecting animals and standing up for them. Im just too much an animal person that i dont like them to be harmed for fun. After all they so have feelings too.

They don't need to be, process isn't designed for sake of fun in the first place. Someone's is getting harmed here you simply get to chose who and as I've explained best for society option are animals.

 

[Veganismo]

Human beings are the worst, most destructive, cruel and horrible creatures out there.

What about sharks with laser beams attached to their backs?

 

[Veganismo]

Sounds like Earthling Ed. He's really good.

He. Is. Fantastic. I have no idea how he keeps his calm cool collected attitude in the face of some of the verbal abuse he takes. He is truly a role model for how to communicate with non-vegans.

 

[The Master Of Design]

Human beings are the worst, most destructive, cruel and horrible creatures out there. Humans are responsible for destroying the rainforests. Humans are responsible for plastic pollution and air pollution. Humans are responsible for global warming and desertification. Humans are responsible for more species extinctions and endangerment than any other species. Humans are partly responsible for creating and keeping world hunger alive. Humans are responsible for creating Mad Cow Disease, other diseases, and now this whole coronavirus mess.
Humans are also so, so, so cruel and nasty towards animals. Factory farming, animal slaughter for meat, dog-sled cruelty, abusing and neglecting “pets”, animal testing, vivisection, hunting, “pest” control (why is this awful cruelty so neglected by animal rights people? Since when has poisoning and inhumanely trapping poor rodents and other animals not been cruelty?), trophy hunting, poaching, fur, fishing, everything! Why do we humans consider ourselves so darn superior when we are so vile and evil to the planet and to animals?
Thank you .

I believe there is heaven and hell on earth. You can choose what kind of world you want to live in. By surrounding yourself with people who have the same values and similar lifestyle as you, you will find your peace and be happy knowing that you are different than the majority.

However, I know sometimes I feel... As if I don't do enough or that we as people who care about our planet earth aren't doing enough. I believe that there will come a time where World Health Organization will advise people to eat plant-based and that eventually, countries will forbid the consumption of animals if they find they can make as much money on Vegan products as well.

I was thinking if another War could do any good, but fighting evil being evil does not make sense as it will create more mess. So, the best solution is to relax, do our best that we can and create more Vegan products, delicious vegan food, recipes, and show people how easy it is to live this kind of lifestyle. Why not promoting a good life and a good health and that everyone who is Vegan should be rich. Rich in family, rich in love and rich in wealth. It is possible for those who believe. So I choose to believe every single day that we together can make a change!