Supplements don't agree with my natural sense. Like the feeling you get after you eat...I dont like its effects on my body. However, eating eggs increases the risk of of heart disease by 10% and my family has history of heart problems. I also don't feel my heart is well. So I'm basically vegan except yogurt. I've to balance survival and morality.
Is my diet moral?
- Thread starter skhande2
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What supplements have you tried? There are many different brands to choose from, so if you think one doesn't quite agree with you, then there are others you could try.
If your objection to supplements is on grounds of wanting to eat "natural" foods, then I would ask to you to give a sensible and coherent definition of what "natural" really means. Especially so because you posted this in the 'Philosophy' forum. But beware, many have already tried and failed
Also, what about other foods, products and practices that are not generally considered "natural"? Such as: foods fortified with vitamins and minerals (e.g. iodized salt), medicines and vaccines, foods that are grown in faraway places and shipped long distances, livestock that are given fortified feed, or basically the whole existence of modern humans.
There are also things that must generally be considered "natural" that are lethal poisons. The same is true for most contagious diseases like viruses and bacteria. Therefore one can't say "natural equals good".
In my view, being human means saying goodbye to "natural" in many ways (but not all!) and accepting that what is good for us is not always that which is "natural".
Welcome to VF!
If your objection to supplements is on grounds of wanting to eat "natural" foods, then I would ask to you to give a sensible and coherent definition of what "natural" really means. Especially so because you posted this in the 'Philosophy' forum. But beware, many have already tried and failed
Also, what about other foods, products and practices that are not generally considered "natural"? Such as: foods fortified with vitamins and minerals (e.g. iodized salt), medicines and vaccines, foods that are grown in faraway places and shipped long distances, livestock that are given fortified feed, or basically the whole existence of modern humans.
There are also things that must generally be considered "natural" that are lethal poisons. The same is true for most contagious diseases like viruses and bacteria. Therefore one can't say "natural equals good".
In my view, being human means saying goodbye to "natural" in many ways (but not all!) and accepting that what is good for us is not always that which is "natural".
Welcome to VF!
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You will need B12, shouldn't need anything else if you have a good diet.
David3
Forum Legend
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Yogurt is made using bacterial cultures that are industrially-produced: https://www.chr-hansen.com/en/food-cultures-and-enzymes/fresh-dairy/our-products-fresh-dairy .
Even grass-fed dairy cows are fed supplements: Cattle Supplements and Minerals . These become part of the dairy yogurt that you eat.
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Sounds great, they definitely don't agree with the natural senses. Supllements can not only be dangerous but there are also studies that show that vitamins taken outside of their natural context can be ineffective. These studies are mentioned by doctor Ornish in The Spectrum. But you are not recommended to take anything besides B12 supplements so long as you are on a healthy balanced vegan diet made of whole unprocessed food.
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David3
Forum Legend
Urban Gardener
Forum Legend
Fortified cereals can be good. Strangely, I always have a hard time finding organic or just healthier cereal that's fortified with B12. However, the major brands do tend to have it (an excuse to eat Fruit Loops??).
I like Post Selects because they're on the healthier side of things and also B12-fortified. Same with Rice Crispies.
I like Post Selects because they're on the healthier side of things and also B12-fortified. Same with Rice Crispies.
What supplements have you tried? There are many different brands to choose from, so if you think one doesn't quite agree with you, then there are others you could try.
If your objection to supplements is on grounds of wanting to eat "natural" foods, then I would ask to you to give a sensible and coherent definition of what "natural" really means. Especially so because you posted this in the 'Philosophy' forum. But beware, many have already tried and failed
Also, what about other foods, products and practices that are not generally considered "natural"? Such as: foods fortified with vitamins and minerals (e.g. iodized salt), medicines and vaccines, foods that are grown in faraway places and shipped long distances, livestock that are given fortified feed, or basically the whole existence of modern humans.
There are also things that must generally be considered "natural" that are lethal poisons. The same is true for most contagious diseases like viruses and bacteria. Therefore one can't say "natural equals good".
In my view, being human means saying goodbye to "natural" in many ways (but not all!) and accepting that what is good for us is not always that which is "natural".
Welcome to VF!
I've tried a few different ones including variety of organic store expensive ones. I've developed a logo theory as well and I dont tend to purchase commodities whose logo's look superficial and this is the same reason I dont take protein powder either. Many health experts claim that natural protein is better as it is correlated with higher longevity.
Yes, I avoid fortified food as well. And of course medicines and vaccines are associated with side effects but we have to take it because the alternative is worse.
Our science hasn't advanced further enough to purely create synthetic food in the lab and call it healthy. Yes, there are many "natural" food that are bad for us. I avoid those too.
Its really simple, I'm trying to live the healthiest life possible. To sum it up, I will only take synthetic substance if they prove to be healthier like medicine or vaccines as they are the exception. By natural food, I mean food that are nutritious and approved. I find citing poison as an example serves as dishonesty as you clearly knew what I meant by I wish to eat natural food...
Yes, this is why I dont buy new yogurt, I just culture it at home. As for the cow taking supplement, I haven't seen any evidence that cows receiving supplement lowers the quality of dairy they produce.
I take B12, D, Genestra Scorbatate which contains zinc, NAC, sea vegetable powder, ground flax, turmeric/pepper, ground up wakame
Emma JC
Emma JC
David3
Forum Legend
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Agreed, certainly.
I mentioned that dairy cows are given supplements because you seem reluctant to take supplements. I wanted to let you know that you already are (indirectly) taking supplements, via the dairy products that you consume.
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David3
Forum Legend
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With the exception of vitamin B12, I don't see any nutrients in dairy yogurt that can't also be obtained from plant foods:
Please be mindful of vitamin D. Unfortified dairy foods don't contain any vitamin D - nor do unfortified plant foods. Per the Vegan Society, vitamin D can be obtained through regular sun exposure on your skin, but (depending on where you live, and the time of year) this may not be sufficient: Vitamin D
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I don't think there's anything wrong with taking supplements, meat and dairy is supplemented with vitamins. I'd rather take the vitamins directly than have an animal take those vitamins, then be slaughtered for it.
It doesn't matter what a person's diet is, it's always recommended to take certain vitamins like B12 and D if you're not getting much sun.
It doesn't matter what a person's diet is, it's always recommended to take certain vitamins like B12 and D if you're not getting much sun.
David3
Forum Legend
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Dr. Ornish makes the following statement about supplements:
"Despite some of the conflicting evidence supporting the benefits of supplements, there are cases where a multivitamin/mineral supplement is a good nutrition insurance policy to ensure adequate daily intake for basic nutritional needs. It is reasonable that some days our intake may fall short. For example, if you’re adhering to a low-fat, vegan diet, your vitamin B12 may be absent, and other vitamins and minerals such as vitamin D, calcium, iron and zinc can be low depending on your food choices. Nutrient absorption can also be impaired as we age and because of interactions with certain medications such as prolonged use of Metformin for diabetes. In these cases of deficiency or poor absorption, a basic multivitamin/mineral supplement may help fill in the nutritional gaps."
Link: Ornish Lifestyle Medicine | What is the Role of Supplements in a Healthy Diet?
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I've never understood why people mention foods fortified with B12, as if it's somehow better than a tablet or a liquid
Vitamin D--you should get tested! Some people are fine with only sun, others don't ever receive it's benefits, and need to supplement
Vitamin D--you should get tested! Some people are fine with only sun, others don't ever receive it's benefits, and need to supplement
The reason supplements are bad for you is because your liver has trouble processing it. If a cow eats supplement and I drink her dairy milk, my liver wont have issues processing that.
David3
Forum Legend
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Hi skhande2,
Please provide evidence, with links to your sources, that reasonable-dose supplements are harmful to the liver.
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First off, there are so many different kinds of 'supplements' that your statement is meaningless. Second--why are you so concerned about supplements? As we have all stated, a varied wfpb diet only requires B12, perhaps D.
I've only taken B12, D and an algae oil DHA supplement for many years.
When you eat animal products you are eating processed foods. Just as plants contain the minerals, etc, from the soil and water they're grown in, animals further process what they eat--and their hormones, enzymes, infections, disease, are all bound in their flesh, their milk, their eggs
I was saying it in relevance to how if a cow eats supplements and you eat supplement through the dairy, its not the same thing. Besides, your body's needs for nutrition varies. Based on yours instincts, you can vary which food to eat more or less. However, your supplement quantity is fixed.
However, since you asked, I'm happy to go on this tangent. There is little to no oversight when supplements are manufactured. Take a look at compounding pharmacies for instance which barely get any oversight and it is flooded with problems:
Here is some evidence with quick googling, sure some more can come up if I dig deeper: Most Vitamin Pills Are Useless, But Here Are The Ones You Should Take
I feel thats a closed minded statement. You've already made up your mind that supplements are good. So unless I try all of them, I'm wrong? Like I said, I've a screening process and none of them look any good. I've also tried a variety of them and they never sat good with me from organic store.
I agree fresh food, mineral water, more fresh air..they are all good ideas. But the gut instinct I follow is if I can't tell the difference, then there probably isn't one. I try to stay in touch with my sense which for the most part, don't fail me.
Besides, I buy food from cows that aren't injected with growth hormones.
David3
Forum Legend
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Not entirely true. In the United States, supplement manufacturers can choose 3rd-party oversight and verification for their products.
For example, United States Pharmacopeia (USP) offers third-party testing and auditing services: Dietary Supplements Verification Program . Nature Made, Nature's Bounty, and Kirkland (Costco) supplements receive oversight from USP, and their supplement labels bear the "USP" insignia: USP Verified Products Listing
