what I'm saying is there aren't any physicals resources used in the virtual reality realm itself - of course it takes resources to make a virtual reality product - but that doesn't matter - as we can get to a day where it's miniscule. What I'm saying is to build a really large diamond, skyscraper, car, plane, etc. doesn't really take more resources than another if they're already made - especially if you're using electricity from solar (although some take longer to build and look at - which takes up internet power). All this is irrelevant to what I was discussing about digital objects vs real ones - there's virtually no resources extra used to build those once you have a VR device vs real items.
Is veganism enough?
- Thread starter Hashtag_Eevee
- Start date
but that's my point though - it's doing your best, but the best just isn't good enough - and that's what this person feels that I was letting them know is happening. Whether veganism kills fewer animals than some other principle is irrelevant to the fact that it still does happen - killing animals I mean. It's like comparing vegetarians to omnivores if we go by your principle - just because it's less doesn't make it right and doesn't mean we can't do better.
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
It was not off topic and wasn't about plants making good fertilizer - it was about the fact that most agricultural fertilizer is made from plants as opposed to your implication that vegetables require the death of more fish than eating fish directly would.
I was referring to a direct comparison of a fish-fertilized lettuce vs eating the fish directly - which is why I thought the amount of fertilizer is irrelevant - as that proportion can change over time and isn't dependent on an individual - who might very well be eating all their lettuce and other plants from only one brand they trust that does use fish. Because we don't know - that's really arbitrary to discuss in comparison to my example.
I guess maybe I wasn't clear, so I'll make it now - I'm saying fish-fertilized lettuce is less vegan than eating the fish directly - between these two - which is counterintuitive to veganism on the surface of comparing lettuce to fish. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
That said, you do have a point about how animal fertilizers, if they're low in the food system, would incur substantially fewer animals than eating animals directly.
David3
Forum Legend
Per the University of Florida Department of, here are the end-uses of fish meal in the United States, year 2010:
Aquaculture (feeding farmed fish): 56%
Pigs: 20%
Poultry: 12%
Ruminants (feeding cows): <1%
Other: 12%
Link: FA122/FA122: The Benefits of Fish Meal in Aquaculture Diets
That is to say, less than 12% of all fish meal is used as fertilizer in the United States.
Aquaculture (feeding farmed fish): 56%
Pigs: 20%
Poultry: 12%
Ruminants (feeding cows): <1%
Other: 12%
Link: FA122/FA122: The Benefits of Fish Meal in Aquaculture Diets
That is to say, less than 12% of all fish meal is used as fertilizer in the United States.
David3
Forum Legend
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This discussion requires specifics and numbers. Please research data before stating generalities.
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it's a general question - even if you take out specifics. We have to realize we're under a 'philosophy' branch - which deals with philosophies - i.e. ideas.
We live in a non-vegan world. It's a mine field I know. We take an ethical stance against the use of animals and do the best we reasonably can. There's just no way to navigate life without inadvertently and/or unavoidably participating in animal slavery . We can only do the best we can.
Graeme M
Forum Legend
I take the view that veganism is a personal moral and ethical stance. That's it. I don't know where in that concept rises the need to be perfect or to make the rest of the world perfect. Our everyday moral beliefs and actions hopefully make us comfortable with our own choices yet we may have a negligible effect of those kinds of moral concerns more broadly. The best we can do is live true to our values and contribute to the broader concerns when we can (eg by voting). The same applies to veganism, which is - as I've claimed before - no more than the exact same set of principles and ideals applied to other animals when we can.
So I find it difficult to see why you think "veganism" isn't enough. By that logic, your usual moral beliefs and actions fall far short of what you'd like for the world. To an extent, that's a trivial concern because that's all that can ever be the case for each of us.
What result from your own endorsement of veganism should you expect to see that you aren't?
I think having guilty conscience over what you can't control is against the universal law of serenity. It is just so counterproductive. You will only end up messing with your mental health. I think you should enjoy the journey without the unnecessary baggage of guilty conscience over what you can't control.
Lou
Forum Legend
Like, I say that I love all animals and stuff, yet I am using a phone and am not a perfect vegan, I know its only a little bit, but it is a (sentient) LIFE that is at stake, and I still feel like my beliefs do not align with my actions, however to cope I've told myself that being practical or not perfect can be veganism look easier and more appealing, despite some hypocrisy there it still works, but it feels like an excuse, like a carnist's excuse.
Lou
Forum Legend
Not exactly sure what you are trying to say there but...
“Being vegan isn’t about personal purity, knowing every little ingredient, or being ‘perfect.’ If you eat something that has some animal products in it or even fall off the wagon some meals, remember that the animals need us for the long term, so don’t get down or give up....
- – Josh Balk, HSUS
Or mose simply stated, Be Vegan, Not Perfect.
Another thing to keep in mind is Personal Purity shouldn't be the goal. Compassion for animals is what counts.
David3
Forum Legend
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Please provide specific facts, with links to your sources, which show that phones are not vegan.
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Why Smartphones Are Not Vegan | How To Live Online
Veganismus ist ein Thema das immer mehr Raum einnimmt und immer normaler wird. Es ist ein probates Mittel um die Ressourcennutzung zu reduzieren, was definitiv…
howtolive.online
Yh, I sometimes care about personal purity too much, I just can't shake off the feeling that I'm still a hypocrite.Not exactly sure what you are trying to say there but...
“Being vegan isn’t about personal purity, knowing every little ingredient, or being ‘perfect.’ If you eat something that has some animal products in it or even fall off the wagon some meals, remember that the animals need us for the long term, so don’t get down or give up....
- – Josh Balk, HSUS
Or mose simply stated, Be Vegan, Not Perfect.
Another thing to keep in mind is Personal Purity shouldn't be the goal. Compassion for animals is what counts.
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
My point is, you can only do what you can do. You are not a hypocrite just because you have limits.
