Jainism

[spencer]

Jainism is among the better religions we came up with sofar but still there are some parts I very much disagree with especially when it comes to gender equality.

Digambara tradition has held that women cannot achieve salvation as men can, and the best a nun can achieve is to be reborn as a man in the next rebirth. At least the Śvētāmbara sect believes that women too can achieve spiritual liberation through ascetic practices.

Correct, it is only the Digambara tradtion that believes women cannot attain moksha (enlightenment/ freedom from reincarnation). The Svetambara believes women can attain liberation and one of the Tirthankaras in the past was a woman. A Tirthankara is someone who rediscovers Jain Dharma, sort of like a Buddha.

The Sevetambara tradition is the majority, comprising at least 80% of all Jains.

 

[Ohzen]

The Svetambara believes women can attain liberation...

But not as easy as men and 20% still follow the Digambara tradition. I am interested how this topic is treated within the community. Dont get me wrong, I honestly wish Jainism would be more popular.

Lutherans have other flaws but a good part is that "you shall call noone master, because we are all brother and sister."

 

[spencer]

But not as easy as men and 20% still follow the Digambara tradition. I am interested how this topic is treated within the community. Dont get me wrong, I honestly wish Jainism would be more popular.

I believe they see them as equals on the spiritual path. Yes, it should be more popular. I believe it is their insistence on ahimsa (nonviolence) and a vegetarian/vegan diet that has prevented it from being more popular. Their greatest doctrine of ahimsa and vegetarian diet is also its downfall in causing it not to grow as fast as other religions.

All religions have some adherents who are vegetarian/vegan, but it is only Jainism that requires it. Dairy is allowed (not eggs), but since Jain doctrine places ahimsa above all else and eating foods that cause the least harm, devout Jains are all vegans. Only Jainism as far as I know demands this level of nonviolence to its adherents of any of the older religions (not counting new religious movements or cults).

 

[spencer]

Claudia Pastorino (born 1965 in Genoa) is an Italian singer-songwriter, author, and an advocate for animal rights, vegetarianism, and Jainism.

Claudia Pastorino - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Claudia Pastorino

She's one of the few non-Indian converts to Jainism.

 

[Urban Gardener]

Correct, it is only the Digambara tradtion that believes women cannot attain moksha (enlightenment/ freedom from reincarnation). The Svetambara believes women can attain liberation and one of the Tirthankaras in the past was a woman. A Tirthankara is someone who rediscovers Jain Dharma, sort of like a Buddha.

The Sevetambara tradition is the majority, comprising at least 80% of all Jains.

But you can reincarnate as any gender, right? The views on gender should be taken in context - it's slightly different if we have many different incarnations and can experience life in different roles. I say this in a neutral way, not judging one way or the other. Just that there is a broader context to beliefs, and it can be hard to judge if you come from a different culture.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I am currently taking a course in mindfulness and the teacher is not Jain but is apparently from one of the several Eastern philosophies that not only exclude animals but onions and garlic and eggplant and hot peppers as well (no one knows, he refuses to reveal his background in this matter, says he accepts all religion or non-religion, seeks to change no one's moral teaching, but yeah). I really love the course I'm taking, it's already helping me so much with insights, mood regulation, etc. but I do not see any scientific reason not to eat garlic/onion/peppers.

Jains take this even further. Wave bye-bye to mushrooms, potatoes, and nutritional yeast. Why? I'm sorry, I just can't take it seriously that I'm harming countless lives by pulling up root vegetables or eating fungi.

I really love general broad teachings and Eastern philosophy as a whole, but it would be difficult for me to live on an ashram where I was told I HAD to drink milk lest I offend my mother cow, or that eating onions and garlic will make me less spiritual. Sure, I can understand avoiding alcohol, drugs, processed foods, or sugar - I can at least see the logic in those things, even if I don't follow it - but I can't do extreme religiosity.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I agree that it appears to be the best religion, especially for ethical vegans. Others take a very weak stance for vegetarianism, if at all.

This isn't true. Vegetarianism is actually compulsory in several religious sects besides Jains, about half of all Buddhists are vegetarian (Buddhism is a huge religion - saying all Buddhists take a "weak stance" on vegetarianism because some do, is like saying traditional Roman Catholics are exactly like the sort of evangelicals who go to mega-churches with rich TV pastors and pray for prosperity, just because they're both technically Christians). I live somewhat near a Buddhist monastery that strongly condemns consumption of meat, fish or eggs and teaches people to eat a mostly plant-based diet, not just at their monastery but on their web site. They advocate for animal rights there and respect for all living beings. ISKCON is kind of a mix of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity and lacto-vegetarianism is required, exactly like Jains. They don't avoid potatoes but they do the garlic/onions thing as well. 7th Day Adventists don't excommunicate people for eating animal products, but vegetarianism is strongly encouraged, and some are vegan. 7th Day Adventists were making and selling nut roasts and faux meats in the 1920s.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Why not? There is no prohibition on using the internet. And with all the vegan options available now, a vegetarian or vegan diet is easy.

You'd basically have to commit to living a very eco-centric and almost indigenous style of life. It's admirable but the level of harm reduction to other living beings would keep you from eating any processed vegan foods, or engaging in any activities that might jeopardize life on earth.

As an environmentalist, I don't drive, I walk most places, I haven't flown in a plane in years, I don't kill plants for no good reason, I reuse things. and I'm pretty sure my lifestyle is still too modern for Jain standards. I would have to move off grid I think.

 

[Urban Gardener]

I've known at least one Jain who was working in an office and living in an apartment in a big city, probably not off-grid.

In many religions, people balance their observance with the realities of modern life.

As for dietary practices that don't make sense at face value, a lot of them have stories behind them and are just long-standing cultural traditions.

It's like the traditions you find in music subcultures. Stuff might not seem logical, but it bonds people together, it's meaningful to them, and some people do opt out for their own reasons.

 

[thinman]

Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own.
– Bruce Lee

Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself, do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it.
– Bruce Lee

 

[Forest Nymph]

I've known at least one Jain who was working in an office and living in an apartment in a big city, probably not off-grid.

In many religions, people balance their observance with the realities of modern life.

As for dietary practices that don't make sense at face value, a lot of them have stories behind them and are just long-standing cultural traditions.

It's like the traditions you find in music subcultures. Stuff might not seem logical, but it bonds people together, it's meaningful to them, and some people do opt out for their own reasons.

Mmmm...okay but to actually follow the Jain religion you have to avoid harming other living beings. That's the entire purpose for avoiding mushrooms or potatoes because you might disturb small creatures in the soil or on a rotting log. TBH, the garlic/onion thing doesn't make sense to me, but neither does living in a big city unless the person has literally no other option. There are reasons for things and many aspects of modern life are quite harmful to other living beings.

It's like when an indigenous person tells me that they can't stop eating meat because they're indigenous, but the meat they eat is from a cattle farm, not from an indigenous lifestyle. I found it so refreshing to meet a young man who was both vegan and indigenous locally, who refused to participate in any rituals that harmed animals and he called out the hypocrisy in his own tribe.

Also, the whole idea in ISKCON, Jainism, and even some sects of Buddhism or Hinduism is to only drink milk from animals who aren't slaughtered. Like, there's no point in being a lacto-veg if you drink milk from cattle or goats who are slaughtered for meat. Originally this was because you lived with a cow or cows and kept them for their entire lives until they died a natural death, and it's seriously not practical to be vegan if you're totally off the grid. It's just not.

EDIT: I did find that the idea behind not eating onions, garlic, or hot peppers is similar to not drinking alcohol or drinking coffee - very devout people from certain groups consider these "hot" foods that are over-stimulating and this would actually make a ton of sense in balmy Southeast Asia where it's hot and muggy at least half the year.

 

[spencer]

You'd basically have to commit to living a very eco-centric and almost indigenous style of life. It's admirable but the level of harm reduction to other living beings would keep you from eating any processed vegan foods, or engaging in any activities that might jeopardize life on earth.

As an environmentalist, I don't drive, I walk most places, I haven't flown in a plane in years, I don't kill plants for no good reason, I reuse things. and I'm pretty sure my lifestyle is still too modern for Jain standards. I would have to move off grid I think.

It's sounds like you'd be a perfect fit for Jainism!

 

[spencer]

I've known at least one Jain who was working in an office and living in an apartment in a big city, probably not off-grid.

In many religions, people balance their observance with the realities of modern life.

Yes, many Jains adapt to modern life. Some eat animal products and eat root vegetables, mushrooms, garlic, but avoid meat. Some feel it is enough to be vegetarian or vegan and don't observe the extra restrictions on garlic, onions, mushrooms, potatoes.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Yes, many Jains adapt to modern life. Some eat animal products and eat root vegetables, mushrooms, garlic, but avoid meat. Some feel it is enough to be vegetarian or vegan and don't observe the extra restrictions on garlic, onions, mushrooms, potatoes.

I noticed that Happy Healthy Vegan, who are very kind of pacifist, peaceful-type activists have a whole foods plant-based cookbook that is entirely free of garlic and onion and it says like on the web page before you buy it. There are mushrooms and potatoes though. It made me wonder what their religion is, because they never talk about it. They're just especially...pacifist. There was also no eggplant, but that's not exceptionally extraordinary.

 

[fakei]

I am currently taking a course in mindfulness and the teacher is not Jain but is apparently from one of the several Eastern philosophies that not only exclude animals but onions and garlic and eggplant and hot peppers as well (no one knows, he refuses to reveal his background in this matter, says he accepts all religion or non-religion, seeks to change no one's moral teaching, but yeah). I really love the course I'm taking, it's already helping me so much with insights, mood regulation, etc. but I do not see any scientific reason not to eat garlic/onion/peppers.

Jains take this even further. Wave bye-bye to mushrooms, potatoes, and nutritional yeast. Why? I'm sorry, I just can't take it seriously that I'm harming countless lives by pulling up root vegetables or eating fungi.

I really love general broad teachings and Eastern philosophy as a whole, but it would be difficult for me to live on an ashram where I was told I HAD to drink milk lest I offend my mother cow, or that eating onions and garlic will make me less spiritual. Sure, I can understand avoiding alcohol, drugs, processed foods, or sugar - I can at least see the logic in those things, even if I don't follow it - but I can't do extreme religiosity.

Don't know why Jains do it but you may find the reasons why if you research about sattvic diet. Those foods belong to the Tamasic group, I think, the one to be avoided.

They do have a point garlic anjd onions can be problematic for they are loaded with fructans and people who think they have gluten intolerance may actually have problems with them.

If one follows a sattvic diet it does help with meditation and mental disposition.

 

[fakei]

Still on the issue of sattvic foods. There seems sometimes to be contradictory info to wich group some foods belong in particular between rajic and sattvic foods and from what I understand none of these two groups is forbiden, rajic foods are simply less suited to a monastic life. Also from what I understand sattvic milk is really difficult to obtain, and commercial milk is not, so in the end this dietary system may lead to veganism.

However, on the other hand, esoteric very restrictive vegetarian/vegan diets may actually be a hindrance to people trying to become vegetarians and may create long time prejudice, in people who believe them, regarding foods that may be quite important to a viable diet . Potatoes for instance can be a very useful food for active vegans.

 

[fakei]

BBC News | HEALTH | Even garlic can be poisonous

 

[VeganRob]

I consider myself a Jain. In fact, I've even went to several meetings and services at the Hindu Center in Bothell, Washington where the Seattle Jain Society convenes. I don't actively participate there anymore as I moved but I maintain its core tenets.

 

[Huckleberry]

Jainism is an atheistic religion, no need for the invisible friend.

Jainism and non-creationism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

False.

There are many gods in Jainism.

 

[Huckleberry]

I am not at all sure that anyone actually goes out searching for a religion to follow. That would be a bit like desperately needing some vitamin C and spotting some Florida grapefruit in a shop. You think, “They all look good….. Mmm….. Yes….. I’ll have THAT one.”

Many individuals often think of themselves as being ever so very important and cannot imagine their complete and utter extinction. So, there must be an afterlife.

In the West there is a god who rewards or punishes us according to our behaviour. Over the centuries this has been a great tool for guiding and even politically manipulating society. “Religion is the opiate of the people.”

For the sad or the lonely or those who need certainty here is something to grasp tightly. Personally, I do not need an invisible friend to help me through.

In Jainism people will not forever be sentenced to hell or rewarded with heaven because of their actions in their one single stab at being human. Instead they are reincarnated and their next existence is decided by the karma of the previous one. Similar incentives then.

John Lennon used the idea of karma to brilliantly convey the idea that our actions greatly affect our one and only life: “Instant karma's gonna get you.”

Roger.

Of course atheists can be crueler than any religious folk.

Torture, cover-ups in China’s camps for Uighurs revealed in new report

Chinese officials spent days burning documents after government information leaked to global media exposed conditions in the camps.

www.nbcnews.com