US Mass shooting in San Bernardino, California

[ledboots]

Agreed. But it will not happen as long as the US Congress is in the pocket of the NRA. They have done nothing in the past. They will do nothing now. If you can't pass logical, sensible gun control measures after children have been massacred, (Newtown, CT) then you never will. We have got to remove those politicians from office who are supported by the NRA. They don't give a good goddamn about what is sensible and logical as long as they are being bankrolled by the people ensuring anyone who wants a gun can get one.

The NRA's contributions to political parties and candidates comes from American citizens, just like the union PAC money and all the others.
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The money powering the NRA

"Some political funding comes from big corporations, many within the gun industry, which donate millions to the NRA. But companies are barred from donating to the NRA’s political action committee, which the agency uses to fill campaign coffers, run ads and send out mailers for and against candidates.

That’s where individual donations come in.

Since 2005, the NRA Political Victory Fund has received nearly $85 million in contributions from individual donors. After the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting, donations to this political action committee surged as gun owners worried that their rights to buy and own guns were at risk."

 

[Dedalus]

The NRA's contributions to political parties and candidates comes from American citizens, just like the union PAC money and all the others.

Since 2005, the NRA Political Victory Fund has received nearly $85 million in contributions from individual donors. After the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting, donations to this political action committee surged as gun owners worried that their rights to buy and own guns were at risk."

None of this information changes the fact that congress bends to the will of the NRA. Those individual contributors that support the NRA do not consist of, or represent the majority of United States citizens.

 

[ledboots]

None of this information changes the fact that congress bends to the will of the NRA. Those individual contributors that support the NRA do not consist of, or represent the majority of United States citizens.

No, but they have over 5 million members, not counting the Americans who agree with them but are not on the membership rolls.

_____

Post-Newtown, NRA membership surges to 5 million
"HOUSTON — Efforts to pass gun-control legislation have only made the National Rifle Association stronger, as the membership rolls now surpass a record 5 million, NRA Vice President Wayne LaPierre told the gun rights group's annual meeting Saturday."

 

[Dedalus]

No, but they have over 5 million members, not counting the Americans who agree with them but are not on the membership rolls.

Is your argument then, that it is the will of the people of the United States that nothing be done to restrict / control firearms? Because I would beg to differ.

***and a lot of those in favor of controls and restrictions are members of the NRA, I might add.

 

[Moll Flanders]

San Bernardino shootings investigated as terrorism - BBC News

The last thing I read was that now the shootings are being treated as terrorism.

Other countries approach this dilemma by asking the question "What would a citizen need an automatic weapon for, at all?" And make certain categories of guns unavailable. Which is not to say that a determined attacker can not use normal pistols or hunting rifles to kill many victims...

ETA Yes, exactly, why do normal citizens need these types of weapons?!

 

[ledboots]

Is your argument then, that it is the will of the people of the United States that nothing be done to restrict / control firearms? Because I would beg to differ.

***and a lot of those in favor of controls and restrictions are members of the NRA, I might add.

No, I think that many people want various restrictions, and many don't. With some 300 million guns out there already, the bad guys will not have a problem obtaining the weapons they want. There are of course already restrictions in place, varying state by state.

It is a polarizing issue, for sure. My point? That the NRA is a group of American citizens. Some members want restrictions, some want all of them lifted.

 

[Dedalus]

It is a polarizing issue, for sure. My point? That the NRA is a group of American citizens. Some members want restrictions, some want all of them lifted.

Do the members of the NRA have a say in what the NRA lobbies for / against?
Is there an agenda put forth on a regular basis before their members to vote on?
How are the interests of their paying members weighed against their partnership with the gun industry?
What restrictions are in place today that the NRA wants lifted?

 

[ledboots]

I don't know the answers to these questions, I'm not a member.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I found it very strange that they let the reporters trample through the home of the two attackers and film what they found. I wouldn't have thought that was normal procedure. San Bernardino shooting: First images from inside suspects' home - BBC News It must have been a rental so the property belonged to the landlord?...

I saw that The New York Times ran a piece about stricter gun control on their front page which is the first time since 1920 that the paper has run an editorial on page one. End the Gun Epidemic in America - The New York Times

I read this article on another forum.
Study: White Extremists More Dangerous Than Islamists Since 9/11

 

[Calliegirl]

I found it very strange that they let the reporters trample through the home of the two attackers and film what they found. I wouldn't have thought that was normal procedure. San Bernardino shooting: First images from inside suspects' home - BBC News It must have been a rental so the property belonged to the landlord?...

I thought that was really odd too. I don't remember open houses of killer's homes being offered before.

 

[Andy_T]

After the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting, donations to this political action committee surged as gun owners worried that their rights to buy and own guns were at risk."

... so the NRA would be happy about every further mass shooting that is bad, but not too bad ... (about 25 people obviously not being bad enough for normal people to want to take action)

***and a lot of those in favor of controls and restrictions are members of the NRA, I might add.

I guess they must be a little bit schizophrenic, if they are in favour of tighter controls and restrictions, but keep supporting the NRA at the same time....

 

[Spang]

Frequent mass shootings are a small price to pay for the illusion of liberty and freedom.

 

[Andy_T]

I must say that I do blame the Western as cultural example and civilisation archetype in the US.

While in Europe, most people in the 1700's and 1800's likely relied on their police forces to keep the peace (or were rebelling against them, with moderate success), it seems to me that the US has not much evolved past the ideal of the Frontiers man carrying a six-shooter at his hip and making sure himself that he gets what he thinks rightfully belongs to him.

I have the impression that significant parts of the population believe nowadays that this kind of justice would be preferable to relying on government and policemen. I must say that the behaviour of too many of these policemen seems to justify their belief...

 

[ledboots]

And I think that those outside the US would do well to be a bit more sceptical of the media and its gun bias, and a bit less judgmental of place you have no real idea about.

This recent couple shooting were radicalized terrorists. Politicians are again using the deaths of innocents to try to get laws about guns passed. Shameful.

 

[Mischief]

^^^ This is a large part of the problem in the U.S. Even people who don't own guns themselves buy into what the NRA is selling.

It's a pitiful mindset here, and people keep dying for it.

 

[shyvas]

And I think that those outside the US would do well to be a bit more sceptical of the media and its gun bias, and a bit less judgmental of place you have no real idea about.

This recent couple shooting were radicalized terrorists. Politicians are again using the deaths of innocents to try to get laws about guns passed. Shameful.

Yes, and don't forget that the recent terrorist attacks in Europe killed over 130 people. Terrorists will get guns regardless of the law that is in place.

 

[Andy_T]

Terrorists will get guns regardless of the law that is in place.

I do not doubt that. To be honest, I am also less afraid of terrorists than of "normal people" with guns, shooting up family planning centers or "protecting their rights" by openly carrying assault weapons to intimidate Muslims visiting a mosque.

But then, if I remember correctly, we had this discussion before, and it is somehow unlikely that many perceptions will change because of the discussion ...

 

[Second Summer]

Yes, and don't forget that the recent terrorist attacks in Europe killed over 130 people. Terrorists will get guns regardless of the law that is in place.

It's also a question of enforcing that law, of course, and having proper border checks, and the situation in neighbouring countries, and how much support the terrorists have in the population. But without gun control laws, you're not even trying.

 

[shyvas]

It's also a question of enforcing that law, of course, and having proper border checks, and the situation in neighbouring countries, and how much support the terrorists have in the population. But without gun control laws, you're not even trying.

Even if there were stricter gun control laws, terrorists would stil kill innocent people. I also think that border control should be stricter and the secret services should be more on the alert.

 

[Second Summer]

Even if there were stricter gun control laws, terrorists would stil kill innocent people.

You're right. The point I was trying to make is that less people would be killed by terrorists (and others) if proper gun control measures were in place.