Natto

[Forest Nymph]

There are vegans in Japan. And yes, you really are paying for the animal products within. Draw your line where you want but let's be honest.

I am being honest. Most of those vegans are in Tokyo or Kyoto, or in Buddhist monasteries. I think of Tokyo as kind of a dystopian nightmare, and don't plan to ever go there unless I MUST land there for practical reasons, then I would leave as soon as possible. Let's get really honest....vegans largely exist because of the modern world, and it's modern people and major cities that are destroying the environment, not indigenous people or traditional vegetarians. Vegans exist to mitigate the horrific damage of modern lifestyles and major cities. Without the industrial revolution, people would largely be vegetarian or pescatarian for ethical reasons, minus a few hardcore monks.

So that in mind, I like to weigh things out rationally. For example, if I have been backpacking and I'm exhausted and all that exists near me is one of those Japanese vending machines, and my choices are to eat 50 calories of fruit or actually get more substantial nutrition from a package of natto where I throw out the tiny packages....I'm not going to NOT get the natto. If I am staying at a ryokan and my hosts understand me only to the point that I'm served vegetables and noodles in a hot pot that might have traces of broth made of fish, I'm not going to starve or throw it in my host's faces.

There are also poor people in the world, Sax. Very poor people who accept charity or budget so stiffly or are locked in a place where they can only get the "chicken flavor" instant ramen and throw out the spice packet. I like reality. My ethics are real and they are honest, but they are based in reality.

EDIT: actually I want to add another couple of points here, 1) things like bonito flakes or traces of fish in a sauce don't kill new fish, that's what I mean by it not even being purchasing animal products, it's basically floor leavings, scraps, used to make these minuscule amounts that would be used in a disposable sauce packet - it's sort of like there being traces of whey in a loaf of bread, for example - and I don't think it's rational behavior to consider this "non-vegan" unless the person frequently and continually purchases these things when they can afford or have access to other options. Like if I equally have a choice to purchase chicken instant ramen or sesame paste, chili, soy sauce etc. instead and they cost about the same, OBVIOUSLY I'm going to choose one of the vegan flavors. 2) scientists are pretty clear that bivalves probably aren't sentient at all, they're a step above sea sponges, which is literally one step up from being a plant; therefore, things like oyster sauce are an ethical gray area, while consuming an octopus or squid is a pretty horrific thing to do

 

[Susan W]

Would you say it's not possible or practicable in Japan to avoid buying food containing animal products?

I would say it can be difficult but mainly the problem is with eating out and with ready prepared foods.
There is a lot of choice especially if you are prepared to make everything from scratch and only eat out at places you know are vegan or have some foods on the menu that are and don’t mind adjusting things, i.e. “leave out the bacon, please.”

if you are a tourist it could get boring because you will be limited to Japanese fast foods at the convenience store, like rice balls and little packs of salad and tofu.

I have heard there is a lot of information on line for tourists as to vegan places to eat and there are lots of traditional restaurants which do vegan meals called “Shojin” cooking which is the traditional Zen Buddhist food. You just have to ask in advance.

 

[Susan W]

I would say it can be difficult but mainly the problem is with eating out and with ready prepared foods.
There is a lot of choice especially if you are prepared to make everything from scratch and only eat out at places you know are vegan or have some foods on the menu that are and don’t mind adjusting things, i.e. “leave out the bacon, please.”

if you are a tourist it could get boring because you will be limited to Japanese fast foods at the convenience store, like rice balls and little packs of salad and tofu.

I have heard there is a lot of information on line for tourists as to vegan places to eat and there are lots of traditional restaurants which do vegan meals called “Shojin” cooking which is the traditional Zen Buddhist food. You just have to ask in advance.

Cont. These traditional restaurant can be very expensive, not your typical back packers haunt.
I would say, impractical. The main problem is the soup. If I were that hungry I would eat the noodles regardless or the soup.
I live here so am not dependent on shops for food and always pack something when I’m going out.
Italian type restaurants I find good if they have simple pasta w/tomato sauce type meals and you can just say no cheese please and no mayo on the salad (which was my lunch or today.)

 

[Sax]

I am being honest.

Again, draw your line where you want. I'm not saying you have to make the exact same choices I would. But when you buy something containing animal products you are contributing to the profitability of supplying animal products - that's simply irrefutable. I get that we can't avoid animal products in every situation but it's dishonest to say you aren't really paying for animal products when that is literally what you're doing.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Again, draw your line where you want. I'm not saying you have to make the exact same choices I would. But when you buy something containing animal products you are contributing to the profitability of supplying animal products - that's simply irrefutable. I get that we can't avoid animal products in every situation but it's dishonest to say you aren't really paying for animal products when that is literally what you're doing.

It's not dishonest and I do not agree with you. I believe your argument here isn't entirely rational. If I were saying I was going to buy meat or eggs and cook them for family members but not eat them myself, I would agree with you. Also, if I consistently bought things with animal products when I had the money and the choice to buy totally plant-based products, I would also agree with you. But your argument here is literally based on trace amounts of animal products purchased under particular circumstances, which strikes me as unrealistic and religious. I don't see it being statistically relevant in terms of capitalism.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I would say it can be difficult but mainly the problem is with eating out and with ready prepared foods.
There is a lot of choice especially if you are prepared to make everything from scratch and only eat out at places you know are vegan or have some foods on the menu that are and don’t mind adjusting things, i.e. “leave out the bacon, please.”

if you are a tourist it could get boring because you will be limited to Japanese fast foods at the convenience store, like rice balls and little packs of salad and tofu.

I have heard there is a lot of information on line for tourists as to vegan places to eat and there are lots of traditional restaurants which do vegan meals called “Shojin” cooking which is the traditional Zen Buddhist food. You just have to ask in advance.

This is interesting but on what islands, in which cities or provinces? I plan to go to Shikoku. I don't think vegan eating would be a problem if I landed in say, Kyoto, but my goal is to see more rural and traditional areas of Japan.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Would you say it's not possible or practicable in Japan to avoid buying food containing animal products?

This is what I mean. Even your question here is a logical fallacy. There are five main islands in Japan. Japan is a country, not a city.

 

[Susan W]

It's not dishonest and I do not agree with you. I believe your argument here isn't entirely rational. If I were saying I was going to buy meat or eggs and cook them for family members but not eat them myself, I would agree with you. Also, if I consistently bought things with animal products when I had the money and the choice to buy totally plant-based products, I would also agree with you. But your argument here is literally based on trace amounts of animal products purchased under particular circumstances, which strikes me as unrealistic and religious. I don't see it being statistically relevant in terms of capitalism.

I think I fall between these two opinions.
The point here for me personally is the bonito which is used to make the flakes to make the soup base and almost every other dish here in Japan. You have to be very knowledgeable and a good cook to get around it.
Because I feel so sorry for the poor fish threshing around in their death throes on the decks of the ships (very often televised here and watched by millions looking forward to the next season’s sushi) I avoid anything containing it like the plague.
BIG HOWEVER. This is disaster country and when something hits you have to be grateful for any available morsel of food because it can take days or weeks for supplies to reach you. During the last big one in Fukushima many people didn’t eat for days because there was simply no way to reach them.
What they did get, eventually was rice balls with Wakame and bonito flakes. They give you what they think is the most nutritious thing.
I would certainly eat what I could in that situation.

Another question for me is refusing well-meant gifts of food or food in other people’s homes.
Traditionally even Buddhist priests accepted anything that was given to them with thanks and gratitude for this reason I always make sure people know in advance what I can or can’t eat.
I do charity work in the Philippines and if some poverty stricken mother offered to share her fish and rice dinner with me I would eat it.
Mostly though I take the gift, say thank you and give to somebody else, later.

sorry for the long post.

This is interesting but on what islands, in which cities or provinces? I plan to go to Shikoku. I don't think vegan eating would be a problem if I landed in say, Kyoto, but my goal is to see more rural and traditional areas of Japan.

Shikoku? Some big towns but very rural in places, though you never know. Plan ahead, ask ahead.
An easy way out is the big American style “Family Restaurants” because they have such huge menus you can usually find something to eat or ask them to leave some thing out.

 

[beforewisdom]

I thought about giving it a try this weekend.

I found brown, short grained "sweet rice" in the store. Is that the same as "sticky rice"?

Will this work?:

1. Steam some brown rice
2. Stir natto 50 times, add it to the rice
3. Add chopped scallions and toasted sesame oil to the rice.

I will probably give it a go with the expensive $6 a serving organic vegan natto first, and if it is nice go look for the regular natto when you can toss the fish seasoning.

 

[Susan W]

I thought about giving it a try this weekend.

I found brown, short grained "sweet rice" in the store. Is that the same as "sticky rice"?

Will this work?:

1. Steam some brown rice
2. Stir natto 50 times, add it to the rice
3. Add chopped scallions and toasted sesame oil to the rice.

I will probably give it a go with the expensive $6 a serving organic vegan natto first, and if it is nice go look for the regular natto when you can toss the fish seasoning.

I’m not sure about the rice as I don’t know about what brands are available with you. The rice everybody eats here is the “Japonica” variety.
Just buy a small amount and try it.
Rice pudding rice also works fairly well as do some of the short grain Californian and Italian rice. The sort of thing you might use for risotto?
I have found that if it’s brown rice, it’s not going to be so sticky anyway.

If you don’t have one And you’re going to be eating rice often why not get a cheap rice cooker or an Instapot. Couldn’t live without mine.Steaming is also pretty straightforward though.

I have never stirred natto 50 times, bit of an old housewives saying that. Probably good for the upper arms though. Just give it a really good stirring (beating?) with a fork until the sticky, slimy threads build up and become a foamy and opaque. Then ad the flavourings you’re want. Soy sauce, yellow hot mustard, spring onions... people add all sorts of things and something Western like parsley would be and interesting. A lot of people here add raw quail eggs but that’s out for us of course.

 

[Susan W]

This is interesting but on what islands, in which cities or provinces? I plan to go to Shikoku. I don't think vegan eating would be a problem if I landed in say, Kyoto, but my goal is to see more rural and traditional areas of Japan.

Hi there, Forest!
I have just been talking about you to my son who is not vegan but eats what he’s given.
“How about Shikoku for a vegan backpacker?” I asked.
“Oh, dear.” He said. Not much of a place for vegans was his opinion.
He says that it’s very strongly fish eating for a start and very rural. It’s the island where they have a very famous pilgrimage around 108 temples and shrines where the traditions is that if any of the locals see you they pop out and thrust some food of drink into your hands. Extremely kind and generous people. So you can’t say no. I suppose people just put the gifts into their bags or pockets and either eat or give the stuff away later. Very bad karma to throw it away I would think.
So even if you were not on the pilgrimage (which would be fun) it’s likely that people would give you stuff. I imagine it is usually fruit or snacks of some kind. Rice balls maybe.
When we were talking about this we both decided we would like to go.
Google will have a lot to say about this pilgrimage.
Similar to the Santiago de Compostella one in Spain. Thousands of people go every year.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I thought about giving it a try this weekend.

I found brown, short grained "sweet rice" in the store. Is that the same as "sticky rice"?

Will this work?:

1. Steam some brown rice
2. Stir natto 50 times, add it to the rice
3. Add chopped scallions and toasted sesame oil to the rice.

I will probably give it a go with the expensive $6 a serving organic vegan natto first, and if it is nice go look for the regular natto when you can toss the fish seasoning.

I like Calrose "U.S. No.1 - Extra Fancy" Shirakiku rice made in the rice cooker, it has a nice firm and "sticky" consistency. It's white rice though.

I've also bought black Japonica before. I did not find it to be sticky but dryer. However, I may have needed to add more water. Black Japonica is really delicious with a kind of complex, nutty flavor.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Hi there, Forest!
I have just been talking about you to my son who is not vegan but eats what he’s given.
“How about Shikoku for a vegan backpacker?” I asked.
“Oh, dear.” He said. Not much of a place for vegans was his opinion.
He says that it’s very strongly fish eating for a start and very rural. It’s the island where they have a very famous pilgrimage around 108 temples and shrines where the traditions is that if any of the locals see you they pop out and thrust some food of drink into your hands. Extremely kind and generous people. So you can’t say no. I suppose people just put the gifts into their bags or pockets and either eat or give the stuff away later. Very bad karma to throw it away I would think.
So even if you were not on the pilgrimage (which would be fun) it’s likely that people would give you stuff. I imagine it is usually fruit or snacks of some kind. Rice balls maybe.
When we were talking about this we both decided we would like to go.
Google will have a lot to say about this pilgrimage.
Similar to the Santiago de Compostella one in Spain. Thousands of people go every year.

Thank you very much for sharing this information! Yes,I have begun to research doing a partial pilgrimage. I'm not religious enough to be determined to walk the whole thing, but for me it seems like a really great experience to perhaps go for about a month, and take my time.

I do feel sorry for the fish, and I'm honestly very disgusted by large commercial fisheries - whether they're Western or Eastern. However, I know that in many cases rural people do smaller and more sustainable fishing that is also less cruel than hauling a bunch of animals out of the sea and throwing them together to suffocate and die like they're "things."

 

[Raven]

I just watched a YT video and three guys were tasting natto. I thought I had tried it before but I haven't! I don't know what I was thinking of... ETA, Oh, I was thinking of Nuttolene, which is like a nut meat in a tin.

OMG, the men were saying how disgusting it was and when they were putting it on their spoons before eating it had strings of slime coming off it. It looked horrible.

 

[Susan W]

I just watched a YT video and three guys were tasting natto. I thought I had tried it before but I haven't! I don't know what I was thinking of... ETA, Oh, I was thinking of Nuttolene, which is like a nut meat in a tin.

OMG, the men were saying how disgusting it was and when they were putting it on their spoons before eating it had strings of slime coming off it. It looked horrible.

Lol! Here in Japan the population is split right down the middle on one side those who love it and the others who think it is like eating vomit.
I love it. If you can get over the appearance it tastes like strong smelly cheese like Stilton.

 

[Raven]

Lol! Here in Japan the population is split right down the middle on one side those who love it and the others who think it is like eating vomit.
I love it. If you can get over the appearance it tastes like strong smelly cheese like Stilton.

I remember when I was a vegetarian (I used to be a cheese addict) the Chief Exec at my job brought in some cheese from France and it was the worst smelling cheese ever but it was the best tasting cheese I've ever eaten.

I don't think I will ever be tasting natto, however.

 

[KLS52]

I just watched a video of people eating Natto.
No offense to those who like it. I don’t think I could get past the slime.

 

[Raven]

It may be like cilantro - some people love cilantro, some people think it smells like soap or even feet.

I had raw coriander (cilantro) recently and I thought it tasted like soap. It didn't used to taste like that to me.

I did do a parasite cleanse this year and last so I was wondering if that changed my taste buds.

I just watched a video of people eating Natto.
No offense to those who like it. I don’t think I could get past the slime.

It's like okra, that goes all slimy too! It puts me off.

 

[shyvas]

I just watched a video of people eating Natto.
No offense to those who like it. I don’t think I could get past the slime.

Same here and the thought of eating it makes me feel queasy.

I like coriander both the herb and the ground stuff, i.e. ground coriander seeds.

 

[KLS52]

I used to hate coriander/cilantro but acquired a taste for it in very small quantities in homemade salsa. I miss it if it’s not in there. When I used to order the Aztec bowl at Salsa Fresca, their salsa had cilantro in it but they added extra as a garnish. I always requested it without the garnish.