News New £5 notes contains animal fat

[Second Summer]

A (vegetarian) colleague just told me the new £5 note isn't vegan! Google Search gives me e.g. this article:

It contains tallow, a substance made from animal fat that is often used in the manufacturing of candles and soap.

A petition has already been launched calling on the production of the plastic fivers to be stopped – and it has quickly gained 1,000 signatures.

The news came to light when the Bank of England responded to a tweet to confirm that tallow is used in the production of the note.

New £5 notes are not suitable for vegetarians (28. Nov. 2016)

 

[Andy_T]

Well, good that I had not planned to eat any of these....

But it is a (possibly little known fact) that lots or products of daily life, where you would not expect it, are made from animal (often for cost reasons).

Many such examples were given in Christien Meindertsma's book "Pig 05049", featuring 185 products made from the remains of one single pig:

Christien Meindertsma has spent three years researching all the products made from a single pig. Amongst some of the more unexpected results were: Ammunition, medicine, photo paper, heart valves, brakes, chewing gum, porcelain, cosmetics, cigarettes, conditioner and even bio diesel.

Meindertsma makes the subject more approachable by reducing everything to the scale of one animal. After it's death, Pig number 05049 was shipped in parts throughout the world. Some products remain close to their original form and function while others diverge dramatically.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

The petition may cause more harm than good, it just makes vegans look like extremists. The way they use the word "demand" in the petition is a mistake. Something like "request" or "suggest" would be better.

Are we going to get some vegan now reject a 5 pound note for change and insist on being paid in pound coins next week, and the press run with it.

I do think they should remove the animal products one day when they get around to it, but come on, we have got global warming and Trump and income inequality and the EU to deal with here people.

 

[Blues]

Well it hit the news downunder as well

'A lot of people would be surprised' - did you know NZ banknotes are made with animal fat?

 

[PTree15]

I just saw this on Sky News. The commentators were rather blase about it during the press preview.

 

[Second Summer]

More developments:

Professor David Solomon, who developped the first polymer bank note in circulation in Australia in 1988, said the new £5 notes contain "trivial" amounts of tallow, an animal fat which is also found in candles and soap, yet pressure is being placed on the Bank of England to find an alternative.

“It’s stupid. It’s absolutely stupid,” Solomon told the Australian radio station 2GB.

“There’s trivial amounts of it in there,” he added.

Source: £5 note inventor says vegetarians are 'stupid'

So we're stupid, I guess. A little bit of dead animal has never hurt anyone, you see!

 

[shyvas]

More developments:

Source: £5 note inventor says vegetarians are 'stupid'

So we're stupid, I guess. A little bit of dead animal has never hurt anyone, you see!

Well that is exactly what most people think.

 

[Andy_T]

Source: £5 note inventor says vegetarians are 'stupid'

Well, no. He did not say "They are stupid", he said "It's stupid" (with which I would possibly agree).
As he mentions, candles and soap contain similar substances, and I am not sure if all those signing the petition absolutely avoid any of these. I go for vegan soap but did not know about candles, so no.

And if you touch anything in daily life (e.g. sit down on a seat in the underground) you will likely get in contact with animal products

 

[Second Summer]

Well, no. He did not say "They are stupid", he said "It's stupid" (with which I would possibly agree).

Agreed that he said "it's stupid" rather than "they are stupid". But I disagree that it's stupid.

As he mentions, candles and soap contain similar substances, and I am not sure if all those signing the petition absolutely avoid any of these. I go for vegan soap but did not know about candles, so no.

And if you touch anything in daily life (e.g. sit down on a seat in the underground) you will likely get in contact with animal products

We buy non-animal candles and soap. (Though I don't carry that soap with me when I'm out of the house ...) Anyway, even animal products are used in a lot of products with which we come into contact in our daily lives, it seems incredibly unnecessary to introuce animal products in yet another product.

Also, this would upset certain religious groups as well, I would think.

 

[Joe]

This article explains why the currency has animal products in it in the first place. Apparently, non-animal products could be used.

New £5 notes: why do they have animal fat in them?

 

[Moll Flanders]

Cambridge Rainbow vegetarian cafe refuses new £5 note - BBC News

 

[Second Summer]

And now, the trolls from the bottom half of the Internet come to weigh in:

Vegetarian café owner who refuses new £5 notes 'absolutely devastated' at abuse (3. December 2016)

 

[Moll Flanders]

"One man in Manchester messaged me at 3am to complain about the sign."

Lol. These internet trolls must have exciting lives, don't they have anything better to do with their time?!

I hope the veggie cafe gets some extra business from the publicity this has caused. I've heard from other people that they do nice food at that place.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I see in the news today a Hindu temple and a Sikh activist rejecting the note. I think we can say at this point that it's almost certain that the bank will follow through and come up with a vegan note at some point, maybe even fairly soon.

I think the vegetarians have won this one.

 

[Moll Flanders]

How difficult is it to avoid animal products in everyday life? - BBC News

"Most people wouldn't feel it appropriate if a restaurant claimed there was only 'trace' of the chef's urine in the soup"
That made me laugh!

 

[Andy_T]

I have now seen some pretty nasty discussions on facebook, where people who said that they would not boycott the new 5 pound notes were called out as "obviously being not really vegan".

That reminds me again of the discussion "how vegan do you need to be" and the incessant activism by some vegans (those often referred to as "The Vegan Police") to shame people who are not vegan enough.

To give a very concrete example, I always research on the well-known barnivore.com website before I buy any alcoholic beverage, be it in a pub or at the supermarket, whether it is produced using animal ingredients, or safe to buy and consume. WRONG - is what I have already heard sometimes ... this website is very superficial and does not check whether the brewing company uses, e.g. an animal-based glue to affix the stickers on the bottle, and until you have ascertained that this is not the case, you definitely should not consume that alcoholic beverage. I guess once you have made sure that the stickers (printed with vegan ink) are fixed on the bottle with vegan glue after washing the bottles in the factory with not-animal-tested, animal-product-free cleaning solution, you should, to be on the completely safe side, still check whether the driver delivering the beer to the shop (which of course should not be selling any other, non-vegan products) did not have leather seats in his truck.

Of course, to avoid drinking suspect beer is very simple. When you are out drinking with your vegan friends, simply order a big glass of water unless the vegan pub you are in has the brand of beer that you have personally (or through respective, thorough, checking web-sites) ascertained to be 100% animal friendly. That is not unpractical and shows that you are a "real" vegan.

I guess we all have to decide where we personally draw the line. When I go to work, I do not really like to touch the handholds in the underground train, as they are made from leather (I try only to touch the metal part of the handgrip, as I find it revolting, but in case of an emergency braking maneuver, I guess I will also make use of the leather part). Of course, were I to be 100% consequent, I would rather ride my bicycle (once I have made sure to procure 100% vegan components like tires ).

Does this rant sound crazy? If so, I duly apologize!

But in a world where 99% of people do not give a rat's *** about the conditions the animals they consume lived (and died) in, some of the 1% are berating the others about not being consequent enough. Mind you, I am not advocating (what I have also heard) that you should eat the egg-based birthday cake, lest the person inviting you to their birthday party will be disappointed or to go for the cheese omelet in case there is no nice salad available today in your cafeteria.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I guess we all have to decide where we personally draw the line.

Yes, exactly.

That also reminds me why I choose not to be on FB.

 

[Second Summer]

Update:

Mr Maw said the Bank is now investigating alternatives to tallow, but accepted it may take some time before one of these is viable to put into circulation.

He went to the meeting with a representative from the National Council of Hindu Temples - Hindus are forbidden from touching beef products - who pointed out it was wrong to force followers from the religion to handle the notes and claimed it could result in legal action

More: Cumbrian £5 note animal fat protester 'delighted' after Bank meeting (31. Jan. 2017)

 

[Simon]

Bank of England were in the news yesterday saying that the plans for a similar £10 note were going ahead, even after vegan groups had threatened court action. So the news hitting petition hasn't seemed to affected anything.

 

[Second Summer]

More developments:

Given the public interest in banknotes, and the complex issues involved, the Bank is seeking further opinions on the use of animal-derived products and plant-based alternatives before making any decisions on the polymer used in future production runs of £5 and £10 polymer notes and the new £20 polymer note.

The Bank will therefore launch a full consultation on 30 March about the content of polymer substrate to be used in its future banknotes. The consultation paper will set out the key issues and invite views from the public. This will allow the Bank to understand better the range of public opinion on this issue and inform its future decision making. We intend to include a range of information including:

• The production process for polymer banknotes;
• The importance of high quality, counterfeit-resilient banknotes;
• Plant-based alternatives to animal-derived products and their likely viability for banknotes; and
• Future cost implications.

More: Bank of England statement on the next steps following the discovery of traces of animal-derived products in £5 polymer banknotes | Bank of England