New Zealand Proposes Ban On Cats

[Mark Mywordz]

PS - I'm one of those who loves animals, but who doesn't think we (human beings) deserve to have pets. I actually support spaying and neutering all "pets" to the point that they "disappear" and we no longer have domesticated animals living with us. Since most pets are fed other animals, it just doesn't make any sense to me that we should keep animal eaters for basically what amounts to our pleasure, when we're opposed to eating animals.

I would never claim the right to speak on behalf of the rest of humanity but I do know that I deserve to have dogs as pets. On the other hand I am very clear that nobody has the right to neuter other animals. That is serious abuse. Fortunately I am fairly sure that most human beings neither have the desire nor the power to carry out ethnic cleansing of this sort.

 

[shyvas]

Many animals do not eat other animals, so there is no reason to deny yourself and your potential animal companion the benefits of a symbiotic relationship. My mainly vegan dogs had a real treat today in Main Street, Gibraltar, when 2 Scottish ladies decided to give them the larger part of their plate of fish and chips. One of the ladies found a bone in her fish - Bless! - and could not eat the rest. Outside Morrisons supermarket in the cafe area we watched pigeons feasting on a plate of food that was left by another customer. G took a photo of the pigeons but I don't know how to post that. We are a wasteful breed, beagles and pigeons are not!!!

I have other reasons for no longer being a pet mum. I must say that life is not the same without my gorgeous baby.

What do you feed your nearly vegan dogs ? Over here people mainly feed their dogs with dry meat food. Hardly anyone feeds their dogs vegetables, like I did. My pet absolutely loved the latter especially courgettes.

I also have never seen a seagull, pigeon or dog not pick up any leftovers………The most cunning seagulls must be the ones in Brighton. They hover around people on the beach and literally dive for any crumbs or leftover food that people discard. Moreover, the majority of people are willing to feed them and don't find that they are a nuisance.

 

[Wolfie]

Maybe if they did the SANE thing and kept their cats indoors 24/7, they wouldn’t have a problem with cats decimating wildlife. Why are non-Americans so insistent on letting their cats roam around outside? It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other, letting cats outside or not having cats at all. We Americans have found that MANY cats actually prefer staying indoors all the time, as long as they get a window and a perch to look outside, and lots of enrichment activities to keep them busy. And there’s also the solution of building a catio, so cats can still be outside but not have direct access to wildlife, or anything else that can endanger their lives.

I agree 100%. I wouldn't send a toddler out to roam on their own and certainly won't do it to a cat. Plus, it's not okay to let your cat on other neighbors' property if they don't want it there. I've had many cats in my life and not one seemed to mind the indoor life, even the ones rescued off the street or farm who were used to being outside. I know there are *some* cats who are miserable without outside access but I don't think that covers most of them.

PS - I'm one of those who loves animals, but who doesn't think we (human beings) deserve to have pets. I actually support spaying and neutering all "pets" to the point that they "disappear" and we no longer have domesticated animals living with us. Since most pets are fed other animals, it just doesn't make any sense to me that we should keep animal eaters for basically what amounts to our pleasure, when we're opposed to eating animals.

Humans are mostly fed other animals, so maybe we need to neuter all the humans too? Humans cause far more animal deaths than dogs and cats combined.

 

[Mark Mywordz]

I have other reasons for no longer being a pet mum. I must say that life is not the same without my gorgeous baby.

What do you feed your nearly vegan dogs ? Over here people mainly feed their dogs with dry meat food. Hardly anyone feeds their dogs vegetables, like I did. My pet absolutely loved the latter especially courgettes.

I also have never seen a seagull, pigeon or dog not pick up any leftovers………The most cunning seagulls must be the ones in Brighton. They hover around people on the beach and literally dive for any crumbs or leftover food that people discard. Moreover, the majority of people are willing to feed them and don't find that they are a nuisance.

We have some enormous casserole pans and I buy large bags of frozen vegetables and big jars of beans. We add any other veg that is in season and any vegan sausages, TVP, nutritious yeast etc.. Some salad too but no onions. Friends, neighbours and random people also give us vegetables from their gardens and small holdings. From these ingredients we make a vegetable casserole. Our 2 dogs are beagles and will eat literally anything and any time but they have 2 meals a day and a little bit of what we are eating, which is mostly OK for them. We keep big tins of non vegan dog food which contains 8% animal products and use these when we are travelling or whenever it's a fiesta and the shops are shut. There's a fiesta about once a fortnight here in Spain.

 

[Mark Mywordz]

Maybe if they did the SANE thing and kept their cats indoors 24/7, they wouldn’t have a problem with cats decimating wildlife. Why are non-Americans so insistent on letting their cats roam around outside? It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other, letting cats outside or not having cats at all. We Americans have found that MANY cats actually prefer staying indoors all the time, as long as they get a window and a perch to look outside, and lots of enrichment activities to keep them busy. And there’s also the solution of building a catio, so cats can still be outside but not have direct access to wildlife, or anything else that can endanger their lives.

Cats were domesticated 4,000 years ago. There were not many Americans around then to tell the insane rest of the civilized world what we should be doing - fortunately for cats. I don't have any cats but my Spanish neighbours leave the door open and let the cat decide. Strangely nearly all animals like freedom and that includes cats and humans.

 

[Mark Mywordz]

Sorry New Zealand, it's the sheep and the cows that need to go. They and NZ animal farming are the problem, not the cats. This NZ law is the biggest load of hypocrisy on the planet. The cats are completely irrelevant, fake news to distract us from the real horrors of life in NZ. I have absolutely no axe to grind here. I have no interest at all in cats but they ARE animals too. The real problem is that NZ has the gall to pretend it gives a shoit about the environment and animal rights while they continue to exploit sheep and cows on an industrial scale. And just as bad is the fact that the sheep and cows have a massively bad effect on the environment and the health and survival of all animals including us humans.
2017 top NZ exports:

1. Dairy, eggs, honey: US$10.2 billion (27.6% of total exports)
2. Meat: $4.7 billion (12.7%)

 

[Poppy]

Humans are mostly fed other animals, so maybe we need to neuter all the humans too? Humans cause far more animal deaths than dogs and cats combined.

But as we (meaning veg*ns) all know, humans can survive/thrive without meat or animal products, but apparently we choose “pets” who cannot . And while we humans (generally speaking) may cause more animal deaths than our pets, not having pets sure would put a dent in the number of animal deaths attributed to our existence, wouldn’t it?

 

[shyvas]

But as we all know, humans can survive/thrive without meat or animal products, but apparently we choose “pets” who cannot . And while we humans may cause more animal deaths than our pets, not having pets sure would put a dent in the number of animal deaths attributed to our existence, wouldn’t it?

The majority of pet owners are omnis and would not take this factor into consideration.

 

[Mark Mywordz]

But as we all know, humans can survive/thrive without meat or animal products, but apparently we choose “pets” who cannot . And while we humans may cause more animal deaths than our pets, not having pets sure would put a dent in the number of animal deaths attributed to our existence, wouldn’t it?

Poppy, the average Brit buys and eats over 12 animals per month. Our pets eat a really minimal amount of meat and pet food consists of all the bits of animal that no human would eat. We only feed dogs "meat" because it is cheaper and easier to find. If false meat were cheaper, everyone would buy it. Get rid of the meat industry and pets would eat no meat.
People who have no pets are less sympathetic to the pain suffered by farm animals.

 

[Poppy]

The majority of pet owners are omnis and would not take this factor into consideration.

I hope I clarified what I meant.

 

[silva]

To respond to whether it's 'natural' or not for cats to be domestic indoor animals, is it any more 'natural' for humans to be? Would you argue it's wrong to raise our children this way?
I do realize it's very dependent on location how cats fare as outdoor creatures, but I assure you in most of the US they are far better off indoors.
The cats rescued from parks or streets have horrid parasites, disease, mange, fleas- things wild animals have protections.
As far as spay/neuter to extinction because they're carnivours? Yeah in like a thousand years and humans actually are all vegan- but wouldn't stem cell or complient plant foods for them be alternatives
This thread has become even worse than the orginal post

 

[Wolfie]

But as we (meaning veg*ns) all know, humans can survive/thrive without meat or animal products, but apparently we choose “pets” who cannot . And while we humans (generally speaking) may cause more animal deaths than our pets, not having pets sure would put a dent in the number of animal deaths attributed to our existence, wouldn’t it?

Most mainstream pet food companies use leftovers from animals killed for human consumption. So I don't think that dent would be as big as you think.

Humans are the problem. Not dogs and cats.

 

[Poppy]

Most mainstream pet food companies use leftovers from animals killed for human consumption. So I don't think that dent would be as big as you think.

Humans are the problem. Not dogs and cats.

If American's cats and dogs were their own country, they'd rank 5th in global meat consumption, says new study.

Cats, dogs responsible for up to 30% of meat environmental impact in US

Its actually quite a lot. People sure get their panties in a bunch when you call out how awful owning pets is for the environment, other animals and for the over population of domestic species. We need to own this problem, not ignore it.

 

[Mark Mywordz]

If American's cats and dogs were their own country, they'd rank 5th in global meat consumption, says new study.
Cats, dogs responsible for up to 30% of meat environmental impact in US
Its actually quite a lot. People sure get their panties in a bunch when you call out how awful owning pets is for the environment, other animals and for the over population of domestic species. We need to own this problem, not ignore it.

So, if Putin nuked the USA, the world would be a better place. Is that what you mean?
I think the world (and the environment) has no intrinsic value. Imho it is only the animals (including ourselves) which give value to the world.

 

[Wolfie]

If American's cats and dogs were their own country, they'd rank 5th in global meat consumption, says new study.

Cats, dogs responsible for up to 30% of meat environmental impact in US

Its actually quite a lot. People sure get their panties in a bunch when you call out how awful owning pets is for the environment, other animals and for the over population of domestic species. We need to own this problem, not ignore it.

I don't know if I believe it that's high just because of one study. Especially when the dog/cat food most people buy is made up of scraps from human consumption. Besides, even if it's true, that means people must be responsible for up to 70% of meat environmental impact. Having kids is far worse for the environment than having pets, yet I don't go around telling other humans to stop having children.

I agree on the overpopulation issue though. We need to own it and stop it. But I don't think that means we need to eradicate all dogs and cats.

 

[shyvas]

I don't know if I believe it that's high just because of one study. Especially when the dog/cat food most people buy is made up of scraps from human consumption. Besides, even if it's true, that means people must be responsible for up to 70% of meat environmental impact. Having kids is far worse for the environment than having pets, yet I don't go around telling other humans to stop having children.

I agree on the overpopulation issue though. We need to own it and stop it. But I don't think that means we need to eradicate all dogs and cats.

Unless we put a stop to animal breeders and allow local councils to ignore the increasing problem of strays, little will be done.

 

[Mischief]

Unless we put a stop to animal breeders and allow local councils to ignore the increasing problem of strays, little will be done.

Agreed. With the number of strays, ferals, and abandoned animals in need of homes, we are still so very far removed from a time where we need to have a discussion about whether it's ethical to have a companion animal, or whether we should allow them to become extinct.l

By the time we reach that point (if ever), circumstances will probably have changed so much that discussions we have now wouldn't even be relevant in those new circumstances.