Obama's second term

[rainforests1]

My question - has rainforest1 ever found a conspiracy theory he hasn't accepted uncritically?

Actually there's only maybe 3-5 conspiracy theories I believe. Most conspiracy theories I have no interest in.

 

[rainforests1]

Yes. A lot/most/all of the Federal Reserve conspiracy stuff has its rootsin anti Semitism also. As of course, the Holocaust denial/Hitler apologia stuff.

Even Mother Jones acknowledges the Fed played a role in causing the current mess we're in. And of course they helped with our involvement in the first World War. Just two of the many issues a person can have with them. Any rational person would be disgusted with the Fed. I don't see how it's anti-semitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Federal_Reserve
According to this article even Bernanke admitted the Fed caused the Depression. People could see him admitting it with their own eyes and many here would still not believe it. My guess is they wanted Hoover out and a warmonger in(Roosevelt certainly fits that description). The American people had to suffer as a result.

 

[das_nut]

Even Mother Jones acknowledges the Fed played a role in causing the current mess we're in. And of course they helped with our involvement in the first World War. Just two of the many issues a person can have with them. Any rational person would be disgusted with the Fed. I don't see how it's anti-semitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Federal_Reserve
According to this article even Bernanke admitted the Fed caused the Depression. People could see him admitting it with their own eyes and many here would still not believe it. My guess is they wanted Hoover out and a warmonger in(Roosevelt certainly fits that description). The American people had to suffer as a result.

Actually, according to your link:

Perhaps the most widely-accepted criticism of the Fed was first proposed by Milton Friedman and Anna Schwartz – that the Fed exacerbated the 1929 recession, sparking the Great Depression. After the stock market crashed in 1929, the Fed continued to contract the money supply and refused to save banks that were struggling due to bank runs. This mistake, critics charge, allowed what might have been a relatively mild recession to explode into catastrophe. Friedman and Schwartz believed that the depression was “a tragic testimonial to the importance of monetary forces.”

Before the establishment of the Federal Reserve, the banking system had dealt with periodic crises (such as in the Panic of 1907) by suspending the convertibility of deposits into currency. In 1907, the system nearly collapsed and there was an extraordinary intervention by an ad-hoc coalition assembled by J. P. Morgan. The bankers demanded in 1910-1913 a central bank to address this structural weakness. Friedman suggested, however, that if a policy similar to the Panic had been followed during the banking panic at the end of 1930, it might have stopped the vicious circle of the forced liquidation of assets at depressed prices, just as suspension of convertibility in 1893 and 1907 had quickly ended the liquidity crises at the time.

Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.[14]

Sounds like Bernanke admitted that they made the depression worse by not manipulating the money supply. But they didn't cause it.

 

[rainforests1]

Actually, according to your link:



Sounds like Bernanke admitted that they made the depression worse by not manipulating the money supply. But they didn't cause it.

I'm not sure how you're translating a statement like "you're right, we did it" into meaning they made the depression worse. I don't see much difference between turning what should have been a mild recession(not a depression as you're claiming) into something much, much worse and causing a Depression.

 

[das_nut]

I'm not sure how you're translating a statement like "you're right, we did it" into meaning they made the depression worse. I don't see much difference between turning what should have been a mild recession(not a depression as you're claiming) into something much, much worse and causing a Depression.

What makes you think it would have been a mild recession? That seems open to debate in academic circles. We've had bad recessions in the US before, such as the Long Depression, long before the Fed.

Ironically, a lot of people who point to the Fed Reserve's handling of the great depression (and yes, they made it worse) also believe in the gold standard, which would have lengthened the Great Depression for similar reasons (reduction of consumer spending, decrease in the velocity of the money supply, and obviously with gold, the supply of money is fixed, hence, the same result.) Other people (with some overlap with the gold bugs) tends to dislike the current US bailout and the Fed's role in that, although if you believe the actions of the Fed were the primary cause of the severity of the Great Depression, then the current 2008 handling of the financial crisis is the right thing to do (including the bailouts), while cutting government spending and balancing the budget would be the wrong thing to do.

Admittedly, the Fed of the time didn't have the same flexibility as our current Fed does. They had strict requirements to how much they could loan, based on how much gold they possessed. They ran into those limits rather early, and couldn't loan more.

 

[Dave in MPLS]

I'm not sure how you're translating a statement like "you're right, we did it" into meaning they made the depression worse. I don't see much difference between turning what should have been a mild recession(not a depression as you're claiming) into something much, much worse and causing a Depression.

He's probably connecting 'it' with the earlier statement " the Fed exacerbated the 1929 recession". Which seems a perfectly obvious and rational connection to make. English pronouns 101 type stuff, really.

 

[FortyTwo]

Actually there's only maybe 3-5 conspiracy theories I believe. Most conspiracy theories I have no interest in.

Yeah, and I like women.

 

[rainforests1]

The wikipedia article clearly mentions it likely would have been a relatively mild recession. It's obviously very hard to say what would have happened without the Fed. My other claim that they purchased government securities, contributing significantly to the Liberty Loan drives, and therefore financing World War 1, I'm surprised I don't see someone trying to refute it. 120,000 American deaths in a war we had no business being in. If you can't find an excuse just claim it was okay that we were involved in the war. There's many reasons why a person can dislike the Fed, and this is probably the biggest complaint I have.

 

[rainforests1]

Yeah, and I like women.

There's one regarding Pearl Harbor, 9/11, the Fed, and the New World Order. That's 4. Even the JFK one I have no interest in. I'd love to hear about all of these other conspiracy theories I promote.

 

[kibbleforlola]

I don't know much about NWO conspiracies (because, yanno, it's nonsense and I really don't care); but from what I've heard it's grounded in racism, right? How do you reconsile this? Just curious.

 

[Second Summer]

I don't know much about NWO conspiracies (because, yanno, it's nonsense and I really don't care); but from what I've heard it's grounded in racism, right? How do you reconsile this? Just curious.

I didn't think that was the case for all of them, or even for the majority, but I probably don't know much more about it than you do. It's the Bilderbergers and that family whose name I can't remember who get blamed a lot of the time.

 

[Envy]

Well, you can blame the large families and the organizations and whatnot, but you don't have to make it a point that they are Jewish.

 

[das_nut]

The wikipedia article clearly mentions it likely would have been a relatively mild recession. It's obviously very hard to say what would have happened without the Fed.

The Criticism of the Federal Reserve wiki article states:

Perhaps the most widely-accepted criticism of the Fed was first proposed by Milton Friedman and Anna Schwartz – that the Fed exacerbated the 1929 recession, sparking the Great Depression. After the stock market crashed in 1929, the Fed continued to contract the money supply and refused to save banks that were struggling due to bank runs. This mistake, critics charge, allowed what might have been a relatively mild recession to explode into catastrophe. Friedman and Schwartz believed that the depression was “a tragic testimonial to the importance of monetary forces.”[11]

The claims of the mild recession are from some economists. While it seems that most economists do put some blame on low interest rates, not all of them (not a majority?) believe that the recession would have been mild.

If you check out other Wikipedia articles on the financial crisis, you'll find other causes. That's worth reading by the way. There's some interesting theories, such as oil prices. The overproduction theory is noteworthy, since that has also been credited to as a cause of the Great Depression. There's also another article with pre-recession economic imbalances which seems (in retrospect) to indicate a world-wide problem.

 

[FortyTwo]

There's one regarding Pearl Harbor, 9/11, the Fed, and the New World Order. That's 4. Even the JFK one I have no interest in. I'd love to hear about all of these other conspiracy theories I promote.

That could be any of millions of things and forces belief in plenty of other theories, most of which I'm sure could be classified as conspiracy theories.

 

[rainforests1]

My belief is the President tends to be very similar from one to the next. They all ignore legal immigration as being a problem even though it will have a horrible, horrible effect on future generations. Animal rights issues are ignored, environmental issues are ignored, and they all promote the military industrial establishment. They all ignore natural medicine. Some of the many issues each President has in common. This leads me to believe there are people behind the scenes who pull their strings(the New World Order). I don't see how it's more than one conspiracy theory, and I certainly don't see it as being racist.

The Criticism of the Federal Reserve wiki article states:



The claims of the mild recession are from some economists. While it seems that most economists do put some blame on low interest rates, not all of them (not a majority?) believe that the recession would have been mild.

If you check out other Wikipedia articles on the financial crisis, you'll find other causes. That's worth reading by the way. There's some interesting theories, such as oil prices. The overproduction theory is noteworthy, since that has also been credited to as a cause of the Great Depression. There's also another article with pre-recession economic imbalances which seems (in retrospect) to indicate a world-wide problem.

Bernanke was referring to Friedman's claims. Friedman thought it would have been a mild recession. Claims from the others have nothing to do with this conversation.

 

[FortyTwo]

My belief is the President tends to be very similar from one to the next. They all ignore legal immigration as being a problem even though it will have a horrible, horrible effect on future generations.

LEGAL immigration is a problem?

Animal rights issues are ignored, environmental issues are ignored, and they all promote the military industrial establishment.

Unfortunately unless we get a vegan president or someone similar, that's probably not going to come to mainstream light for a while now. I think there's going to come a time soon when we start to get more on the bandwagon. Every generation has its thing - once our current issues are sorted out a little bit better I think the animal rights issues will finally be addressed.

They all ignore natural medicine. Some of the many issues each President has in common. This leads me to believe there are people behind the scenes who pull their strings(the New World Order). I don't see how it's more than one conspiracy theory, and I certainly don't see it as being racist.

When you say New World Order you bring many things to mind. Annunaki. The Illuminati. Lizard people, tin foil hats. That's why everyone always brings these things up in threads you start, because it sounds so ridiculous in the first place that it's not much of a stretch, to be honest.

 

[rainforests1]

If we're lucky enough to avoid some of the other problems(losing farm land, water shortages, etc.) the one we won't be able to avoid is oil. It's very limited and our society depends on it. If we run out of oil(or at least cheap oil) and we haven't found alternatives, we'll have to become farmers again and probably farm by hand. When our population was smaller it was possible. With 310 million it's impossible. The higher the population goes, the harder it will be to avoid a crisis. In this way, immigration is one of the most important issues effecting America in the future. If America has a crisis related to peak oil, other countries will suffer as well. No Presidents have tried to address the issue. I read about our hunting and gathering relatives taking action against overpopulation, but most of today's humans don't care about the issue. It's sad to see how we've become this way.

Every generation has its thing - once our current issues are sorted out a little bit better I think the animal rights issues will finally be addressed.

I'd love to be optimistic but it may be the last issue that I think will get addressed. The 11 billion farm animals will continue living a life of misery.

 

[das_nut]

If we're lucky enough to avoid some of the other problems(losing farm land, water shortages, etc.) the one we won't be able to avoid is oil. It's very limited and our society depends on it.

Do you disagree that as supply drops and all other factors remain the same, the price of a good will rise?

Or do you disagree that as the price of a good rises, alternatives will be used more and more?