Outside US vegan places to retire

[shyvas]

lol No need to attack my suggestion. For me retirement means being able to afford to live comfortably. F

Thanks for your input though Shyvas. I'd be interested where you suggest the OP retires that doesn't have any form of animal cruelty, if such a place exists? Some maybe worse than others for sure. That is not so easy to define, as you can read below.

The Best & Worst Countries for Animal Welfare Are Difficult to Measure

An imperfect but important ranking system, explained.

sentientmedia.org

*

Simply commenting on your post! Where's the attack?

I was also bearing in mind the OP's criteria and a vegan lifestyle would not be found in the list of countries that you suggest. As for countries that have little animal cruelty; there may be a list of the 'least worst' ones as a vegan country simply does not exist. Perhaps suggesting places where there is a strong vegan/AR's community would be easier?

 

[KLS52]

I realise we all have our opinions, but for me that smacks of crazy tin-foil hat stuff. It bothers me that so many people say stuff like this - it shows how easily people are manipulated by the media. At the end of four years, the people will vote and their wishes served. If nothing else, Trump is for the people.


I think that's a rational response.

I have moments, usually when I'm feeling particularly despondent and vulnerable, when I try to convince myself that what you say is valid. I do it to try and calm myself down and make me feel better. But then I feel guilty because I'm one of the white privileged who likely won't be impacted by much of what Trump does. And that just feels wrong to me.

 

[Andy_T]

I would say that Thailand isn't a vegan friendly country due to the way the treat animals; especially dogs.

France also isn't a very vegan friendly country and the cost of living is expensive. There is not only a sense of isolation when you're a vegan over here but also a feeling that this country is quite backward. They still have bullfighting in the south and there are over a million hunters.

I am not sure whether the plight of dogs in Thailand, China, Korea or similar countries that are often similarly vilified is any worse than the plight of chickens, pigs and cows in our « enlightened » developed countries…

 

[Andy_T]

Anybody who has great hopes for Dump’s second term should have somehow lowered expectations now his first staff selections have been made public.

Specifically, how the vetting and confirmation of these uniquely unqualified candidates will go in senate, will tell us a lot about the value of the « limits and guardrails » we all hope to reign him in over the next years…

All eyes are now on Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney and Todd Young.

Let’s see if personal integrity along the lines of the late John McCain comes back in fashion.

Or, if they will rather engage in a game of « ok, like last time, 2 of us are allowed to vote against this candidate, so that he is still confirmed, but we don’t look too bad for our constituents - who’s it going to be this time? »

 

[Lou]

unqualified candidates

That is the nicest thing you can say about these duchebags.

 

[PTree15]

Anybody who has great hopes for Dump’s second term should have somehow lowered expectations now his first staff selections have been made public.

Specifically, how the vetting and confirmation of these uniquely unqualified candidates will go in senate, will tell us a lot about the value of the « limits and guardrails » we all hope to reign him in over the next years…

All eyes are now on Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney and Todd Young.

Let’s see if personal integrity along the lines of the late John McCain comes back in fashion.

Or, if they will rather engage in a game of « ok, like last time, 2 of us are allowed to vote against this candidate, so that he is still confirmed, but we don’t look too bad for our constituents - who’s it going to be this time? »

Sadly, I don't have much hope for Collins, as she hasn't had the guts to go against the grain. She's more talk than action. She proved that when she could have voted against advancing the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court to the full Senate. I'm hoping she'll come around and get a clue, but as I said, I don't have much hope for her.

 

[Tom L.]

I think president Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the only one to ever serve more than two terms.

no, Grover Cleveland was. Also of note there are many similarities between Trump and Cleveland. Cleveland's presidency is remembered for its scandals, corruption, infidelity, ... although compared to trump Cleveland was a choir boy. And maybe not as bad as president as he is remembered.

Argh- (note to self: start refreshing my memory about history. Because those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.) Thanks. I went to www.whitehouse.gov to read their article about Cleveland.

 

[shyvas]

MOD POST

This post is about retiring to countries outside the US and not US politics. There is a given thread if you wish to discuss current politics in
this country. Let's get back on topic please.

US Thread 'US Politics 2024'

Jan 15, 2024

New year, new thread. This is a continuation of the 2023 thread.

So, what do you think the Supreme Court is going to decide in the disqualification case against Trump? Will they find some excuse not to disqualify him from holding office again, or will they do what some experts think is the only possible outcome and actually disqualify him?

• Second Summer
• politics usa
• Replies: 416
• Forum: General Discussion

• 

 

[veganfortheanimalss]

I could not access the above us politics thread. It's giving me some kinda error.

 

[shyvas]

I could not access the above us politics thread. It's giving me some kinda error.

US Thread 'US Politics 2024'

Jan 15, 2024

New year, new thread. This is a continuation of the 2023 thread.

So, what do you think the Supreme Court is going to decide in the disqualification case against Trump? Will they find some excuse not to disqualify him from holding office again, or will they do what some experts think is the only possible outcome and actually disqualify him?

• Second Summer
• politics usa
• Replies: 416
• Forum: General Discussion

• 

Have you clicked onto the first link? If not you simply go to the Lounge sub forum/Culture/US Politics.

 

[fakei]

It all depends on what you mean by low cost of living. You would also have to take into account any language barrier if you decide on a non English speaking country. I believe that no country has an ideal vegan lifestyle.

Some areas of Portugal (Algarve) have a large vegan expat community. However, the rest of the country isn't particularly a leader of animal rights and veganism. Bullfighting in Southern Europe is still popular with some of the population.

Haven't been to restaurants but there used to be a lot of vegan restaurants in Lisbon and in other places. Also the few times that happened never had a problem in getting a meal free of animal products in non vegan restaurants.

Maybe it's due to lack of comparison but tend to see the Portuguese as having a strong orientation to animal rights although a bit misguided.

The animal rights party PAN has been elected to parliament for several terms now.

Some years ago a Pitbull killed a child and there was a highly voted petition to prevent him from being killed with support including relatives of the victim. I had a neighbour whose granddaughter was also attacked by a neighbours dog and underwent surgery, and lied to the authorities about the dog to prevent him from being killed.

In fact animal rights petitions get far more signatures than human rights, like the ones directed to prevent the genocide in Gaza. In fact knowing several animal rights activist thought would see many when pro-Palestine protests started, assuming they would put humanitarian issues at the same level, but saw few familiar faces and not related.



Bull fights are difficult to go away because they are deeply entrenched in a certain segment and trying to fight it only entrenches it more since it drags in the nostalgics and conservatives who don't care about the tradition anyway except when it is being threatened; nevertheless the bull is not killed on the arena.

Overall it's not difficult to be vegan in Portugal and there are like-minded people.

 

[fakei]

...

 

[Brian W]

I'm 64 years old and have been vegetarian for 40 years and vegan for 1.5 years. I'm horrified at US election (I live in Virginia) and would like to retire outside of U.S. Which country (ies) would you recommend based on a combination of low cost of living, acceptance (and pragmatism) of vegan life style, and ease of immigration for retirees with acceptable levels of income?

Sweden has a 10% vegan/vegetarian population and is fantastic for vegan options. Acceptance is so good, you never hear anybody say "where do you get your protein from?" Most people here think it is a really good thing to be vegan, even if they haven't taken the plunge themselves. When I first came here from the UK, it felt like the cost of living was high but when I consider my lifestyle, considering I don't work full-time and share my income with my wife, I think I have actually got it quite good. Certainly worth looking into and the vast majority of Swedes speak excellent and natural English. Ease of immigration....I'm not entirely sure since the right-wing took over. You would have to do some research.

 

[shyvas]

Bull fights are difficult to go away because they are deeply entrenched in a certain segment and trying to fight it only entrenches it more since it drags in the nostalgics and conservatives who don't care about the tradition anyway except when it is being threatened; nevertheless the bull is not killed on the arena.

Overall it's not difficult to be vegan in Portugal and there are like-minded people.

There is quite a big vegan community in the Algarve but mainly made up of the expat population. Once you are in the centre or away from larger towns, apparently it's difficult to find vegan food in shops or cafés.

Bullfighting nevertheless is still cruel as the bull is tortured and exploited. Moreover, it is usually killed once it's left the arena.

No vegan can ever say that this cruelty is acceptable, even if the bull isn't killed.

 

[fakei]

There is quite a big vegan community in the Algarve but mainly made up of the expat population. Once you are in the centre or away from larger towns, apparently it's difficult to find vegan food in shops or cafés.

Agreed and the list below vegan/vegetarian restaurants are concentrated in a few cities like you say.

It's possible though to talk to people in non veg restaurants and get a meal without animal products, with the risks of contamination.

But I assume you didn't find it difficult to find vegan products in retailers, and at least Celeiro sells online.

Centro Vegetariano - Vegetarianismo e Veganismo

Associação dedicada à divulgação e promoção do vegetarianismo e veganismo, nas suas vertentes éticas, de saúde, ecológicas e económicas.

www.centrovegetariano.org

Para viver de Corpo e Alma. Visite a loja online | Celeiro

Nas lojas Celeiro encontra alimentação saudável, produtos biológicos, alternativas para diabéticos e celíacos, suplementos alimentares e cosmética biológica. Experimente também as refeições saudáveis do Celeiro à Mesa.

www.celeiro.pt

Bullfighting nevertheless is still cruel as the bull is tortured and exploited. Moreover, it is usually killed once it's left the arena.

No vegan can ever say that this cruelty is acceptable, even if the bull isn't killed.

Agreed, and no human being should consider it acceptable and it's bad for the horse too and for the minds of humans who derive pleasure in such entertainment.

To be honest I don't remember anyone ever around me that actually liked or endorsed it, something confirmed by a recent poll where 77% think it is cruel and 58% that it should be banned, and I get impression the party PAN rose to prominence under the anti bullfights banner. Nevertheless despite of being a very effective party on other issues it hasn't succeed on this one.

Nova sondagem confirma que a maioria dos portugueses são contra as touradas

Sondagem realizada em Portugal, Espanha e França mostra que a maioria defende a abolição das touradas

basta.pt

 

[Lou]

how about a 4-year long cruise?

 

[g0rph]

how about a 4-year long cruise?

Nice, but very un-vegan...

 

[Second Summer]

how about a 4-year long cruise?

Is this cruise for real? Sounds nice, but I think I would quickly get bored! And worry about the trip's contribution to pollution and climate change.

I get that this is comedy and just meant to be funny, which it is in one sense. However, the skit is also somewhat tone deaf, even if the cruise is made up. I don't think the struggling US working class would be very impressed by a liberal elite who not only can afford not to be working for 4 years, but also can afford a 4-year cruise, just so they don't have to be reminded of Trump's re-election. And I can already imagine the treatment awaiting this liberal escapism cruise on right-wing media ...!

 

[Lou]

Is this cruise for real?

Yes. the skip forward cruise

Can't handle a second Trump term? One cruise line has announced a four-year long 'Skip Forward' journey

Tickets start at $256,000.

fortune.com

Sounds nice, but I think I would quickly get bored!

Perhaps you can telecommute from the ship.
I think I would be fine just using their facilities and maybe going touring whenever they hit a port.

And worry about the trip's contribution to pollution and climate change.

Yeah, there is that. We would have to analyze the data and compare it to our footprints on land.

I get that this is comedy and just meant to be funny, which it is in one sense. However, the skit is also somewhat tone deaf, even if the cruise is made up. I don't think the struggling US working class would be very impressed by a liberal elite who not only can afford not to be working for 4 years, but also can afford a 4-year cruise, just so they don't have to be reminded of Trump's re-election. And I can already imagine the treatment awaiting this liberal escapism cruise on right-wing media ...!

a cruise is not all that different from people leaving the country. Which is what the OP is looking into.

I was talking to some friends about "fleeing" and they made a good point. If we give up or retreat - that would probably make Trump happy. Better to entrench and prepare for the next battle. Fight! Fight! Fight!

Also if you happen to end up on Trump's Enemies List, it might be a Very Good Idea to spend the next 4 years out of the country.