News Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

One aspect of the war which is perhaps not so well understood is the extent to which Russians have been indoctrinated through their state controlled media.

Consider how successfully FOX News and similar right-wing media in the US have managed to indoctrinate a considerable segment of the population there, and yet they operate in a "free" media landscape which is not state controlled.

Then look at Russia where Putin's narrative has been the only perspective for years, and free media no longer really exists.

Putin's Russia has become a fascist state: It's anti-liberal, they persecute the opposition, journalists and LBGT+ people, they indoctrinate the people, while celebrating masculinity and their dictator. Putin's love for the grandiose including his enormously oversized table is another trait of classic fascism.
 
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Indian Summer said:
One aspect of the war which is perhaps not so well understood is the extent to which Russians have been indoctrinated through their state controlled media.

Consider how successfully FOX News and similar right-wing media in the US have managed to indoctrinate a considerable segment of the population there, and yet they operate in a "free" media landscape which is not state controlled.

Then look at Russia where Putin's narrative has been the only perspective for years, and free media no longer really exists.

Putin's Russia has become a fascist state: It's anti-liberal, they persecute the opposition, journalists and LBGT+ people, they indoctrinate the people, while celebrating masculinity and their dictator. Putin's love for the grandiose including his enormously oversized table is another trait of classic fascism.
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...and so many of these right wing extremists love and admire Putin. Including Trump.
 
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Another interesting claim I heard today (video by CaspianReport) is that Russia has been holding back in the war. He described the war as a "handbrake war" which is not something the Russian military is trained for. Putin didn't want to unleash the full potential of the Russian forces as that would quickly become a complete media disaster due to the civilian casualties. So instead, what Putin has attempted is a low-effort war hoping for a quick win with relatively few civilian casualties. Now that this has failed, he is going to ramp up the firepower, which will inevitably lead to more civilian casualties.

Europe will soon be flooded with refugees. Already 2 million are fleeing or have fled.
 
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I saw an article a few days ago where there was a quote from a business man that said something like, WWIII has already started.
Then I saw another one that said essentially the same thing form the Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine.
After reading those articles, my newsreader has been feeding me WWIII headlines.

This is over a week old already but its the best one. Remember Fiona Hill from Trumps 1st impeachment trial?

This is what she had to say. "We are already, she said, in the middle of a third World War, whether we’ve fully grasped it or not."

"Sadly, we are treading back through old historical patterns that we said that we would never permit to happen again."

It’s important not to have any illusions — but equally important not to lose hope.
“Every time you think, ’No, he wouldn’t, would he?’ Well, yes, he would,” Hill said. “And he wants us to know that, of course. It’s not that we should be intimidated and scared…. We have to prepare for those contingencies and figure out what is it that we’re going to do to head them off.”


Shoot. First Trump, then Covid, now WWIII. This ride sucks. I want a refund.
 
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I'm a bit dissapointed with Norway on this case. We are so far only reciving people with a biometric passport, that is something few Ukrainians owns. So far we have gotten a bit over 1000 to Norway. We aim for 8.000 at the moment.

But we have altered the laws for pets a bit now, so you can bring your pets. It is still very strict, but all the vet bill and the quarantine is paid by the gouverment. I'm very touched by all the history of animals being refugees now, and it's so clearly they love their animals a lot. I don't think we have ever seen a refugee crisis like this with so many pets.

So far, I have supported a plane ticket for an old woman and her cat, so she can get to the US to stay at her family. And some food and medicine for dogs that are arriving into Ukraine today. There is a shelter that is shelled twice now, and if the people survives and rebuild it, I wonder to support that one. They don't want any donations at the moment because of it.
 
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The reports coming from today are horrible. A children's hospital is bombed. Russia is using vacuumbombs (illegal bombs). Massgraves. Civilans bombs and killed.

I sent Val a message on Instagram today and asked how she's doing. Not sure how much access they have to different apps now, the last people I talked with from Russia a couple of days ago had Facebook blocked, but Instagram worked.
 
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Well, I don't know about anyone else but I am confused about what is going on with Ukraine. I'll openly admit that I tend towards the left wing so listen to left wing sources on the issues surrounding Ukraine. People like Johnny Harris talk a lot about the reasons Russia is invading Ukraine (
) but this comes into conflict with people like Jimmy Dore (
). Johnny Harris says that there isn't any real meat on the bones when it comes to Putin's claims that there are significant neo-nazi's in Ukraine, where as Jimmy Dore suggests that in fact neo-nazi's have infiltrated the Ukraine military and government. I also watch people like Second Thought (
) who have a different take all together. I'm so jaded from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that I don't really know who to listen to. Who are you guys listening to with issues surrounding the war in Ukraine?
 
The Soviet Union was founded in 1922. Good to remember when people claim Ukraine is only a country from the fall of USSR. To colonise an area doesn’t mean you own it forever. At least not in Europe.

None of the countries who belonged to them nor the Eastern European countries are interested in belonging to them…
 
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fuzzy logic said:
Well, I don't know about anyone else but I am confused about what is going on with Ukraine. I'll openly admit that I tend towards the left wing so listen to left wing sources on the issues surrounding Ukraine. People like Johnny Harris talk a lot about the reasons Russia is invading Ukraine (
) but this comes into conflict with people like Jimmy Dore (
). Johnny Harris says that there isn't any real meat on the bones when it comes to Putin's claims that there are significant neo-nazi's in Ukraine, where as Jimmy Dore suggests that in fact neo-nazi's have infiltrated the Ukraine military and government. I also watch people like Second Thought (
) who have a different take all together. I'm so jaded from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that I don't really know who to listen to. Who are you guys listening to with issues surrounding the war in Ukraine?
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I knew nothing about these people, but you can learn a lot from Wikipedia:
Johnny Harris (journalist) - Wikipedia : "He holds a BA in international relations from Brigham Young University and an MA in international peace and conflict resolution from American University.[2]"
Jimmy Dore - Wikipedia - Not everything seems bad here, but note the sections "Controversies" and "Discussion about conspiracy theories". Also: "Dore was a staunch critic of the Special Counsel investigation into potential collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.[49]".

For people on the left who support democracy, Putin's Russia is really bad news. See my previous post above.

Ukraine already had its share of issues before the invasion (a million more issues now, obviously): high levels of corruption and far right groups (the latter probably fuelled by nationalist sentiments stemming from the conflict with Russia over Crimea and the two eastern breakaway provinces), but it's not a dictatorship like Russia.
 
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I don't know how to quote properly.

Shyvas - that was an interesting article, gave some good historical perspective.
Amy SF - I love Legal Eagle, he's great. It was interesting to hear his perspective of the 2014 election, and international law.
Lou - that was a very informative piece of content. I had heard about the natural gas aspect, but hadn't seen it laid out so well. Not to mention the problem of Crimea and water. Obviously Putin is a bad guy, but that video gave some pretty compelling reasons why Putin would want to take over Ukraine, which is a contrast from a lot of the media which portrays Putin as just insane.
Indian Summer - yes Jimmy Dore was very critical of the Special Counsel investigation as he viewed it as a distraction from the real issues, he loves to say he was right on this point (which can be annoying I'll admit), but it was a bit of a nothing burger in the end.
 
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KLS52 said:
I can’t even imagine seeking refuge with a beloved pet. 💙💙

View attachment 26670View attachment 26671View attachment 26672View attachment 26673View attachment 26674View attachment 26675View attachment 26676
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This is the first time we have seen so many pets being refugees too.

I just followed a woman's trip out of Ukraine now. She hid in a well for several days with her dogs, every night and during all alarms. Then she was denied crossing to Poland because of the amount of dogs. She drove to the border to Hungary. She was refused there too. Split her pack in two, drove the first dogs over and delivered to a friend that came from Poland ot pick the dogs up. Drove back to Ukraine and picked up the rest. All are safe now.

A woman carried her old GSD for 17 km to get her out of the country. Another woman fled with several special needs dogs. Two are in a wheelchair.
 
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