News ''should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan''?

[Lou]

You be the judge -You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan?

Although The Guardian is one of the publications my NewsFeeder follows, I've never seen their "You Be The Judge" column. The column states, "Your domestic arguments solved by Guardian readers". I guess it comes out on Fridays.

This seems a lot like the Reddit "Am I an *******" thread". Maybe what's different about this is that both parties get to make their case. And there is an actual poll.

Anyway this one popped up, probably because it's about veganism.

You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan?

Agnieszka has been vegan for a year but ‘slips up’ occasionally. Dylan thinks she’s being hypocritical. You need to get to the meat of the matter

www.theguardian.com

At the end a number of readers have their comments published. I thought the comments pretty much hit the most relevant concerns. And then at the end they have a poll where you get to vote on the verdict. A lot of other online polls will show you the results right after you vote. This one you have to wait a week. The last poll was about John throwing away old clothes and 96% of the people thought he was guilty. I'm thinking this one is going to be a lot less conclusive - closer to 50/50.

I voted against Dylan. She doesn't have to be perfect to call herself vegan.

How are you guys going to vote?

 

[silva]

The boyfriend says shes shes preachy and often eats meat. she says she only speaks up when asked, and rarely slips. Very different stories, so who can say?
I really hate it when people are preachy, particularly at meals. If you're still okay with slipping up yourself how can you admonish others without being seen as a total A-hole?
If she's not being preachy to others then her boyfriend is out of line, but if she is I find it totally reasonable to call her out
Anyway, the relationship sounds like a disaster

 

[Brian W]

I don't know whether the comments at the bottom came from meat eaters or vegans but I have seen and heard many vegans online who come out with just such judgemental statements and refuse to acknowledge human weakness at all. That is one of the reasons I won't identify as a vegan online anymore, because I don't want to be associated with such an attitude. The girlfriend is trying to be vegan but has to live with somebody who eats meat. That is really really difficult. I'm on her side.

 

[Lou]

I don't know whether the comments at the bottom came from meat eaters or vegans but I have seen and heard many vegans online who come out with just such judgemental statements and refuse to acknowledge human weakness at all. That is one of the reasons I won't identify as a vegan online anymore, because I don't want to be associated with such an attitude. The girlfriend is trying to be vegan but has to live with somebody who eats meat. That is really really difficult. I'm on her side.

Good question. Where do those comments come from?
Since the arrticle was published with those comments, the commenters must have had gotten an advance copy. It states that they are "The jury of Guardian readers". So it can't be some people working at the guardian. I actually imagined the editor going around the office getting comments. I wonder if the commuters are the same each week. Or are they readers who have volunteered I guess I could check that out.Also the comments seem very reasonable and also typical.

 

[silva]

I don't know whether the comments at the bottom came from meat eaters or vegans but I have seen and heard many vegans online who come out with just such judgemental statements and refuse to acknowledge human weakness at all. That is one of the reasons I won't identify as a vegan online anymore, because I don't want to be associated with such an attitude. The girlfriend is trying to be vegan but has to live with somebody who eats meat. That is really really difficult. I'm on her side.

Didn't sound like most peoples issue was her giving in to cravings but being preachy to others about eating meat. They have very very different stories.
Her boyfriend says she's preachy and judgemental, and I have NO problem calling that out

 

[Lou]

Didn't sound like most peoples issue was her giving in to cravings but being preachy to others about eating meat. They have very very different stories.
Her boyfriend says she's preachy and judgemental, and I have NO problem calling that out

we can easily surmise that the boyfriend sees her as "preachy" when perhaps she is just advocating.
I'd like to call witnesses.

 

[Graeme M]

This might be an example of why wanting to call oneself a "vegan" and believing that means a stringent diet at all times might be self-defeating. Equally I get that people like the idea of labels and of belonging to a tribe. My take is that being vegan doesn't really mean never eating meat, it is more to do with the actual choices you make that stimulates economic systems to use animals as resources. From the evidence in the article, it seems that all she is doing is occasionally eating some animal products that she and her non-vegan boyfriend are buying, so the actual real-world effect is pretty limited.

If Agnieszka cast her ethics more in those terms, she could take the stance that as much as possible, she doesn't make buying choices that contribute to the system of exploitation. Now, if her boyfriend joined her in being vegan and they still bought bacon and cheese crackers, maybe that would be more of an issue. Still, the degree that someone does this might be of more concern - the occasional purchase of an animal product is neither here nor there in the scheme of things, at least as I see it.

 

[KLS52]

You be the judge -You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan?

Although The Guardian is one of the publications my NewsFeeder follows, I've never seen their "You Be The Judge" column. The column states, "Your domestic arguments solved by Guardian readers". I guess it comes out on Fridays.

This seems a lot like the Reddit "Am I an *******" thread". Maybe what's different about this is that both parties get to make their case. And there is an actual poll.

Anyway this one popped up, probably because it's about veganism.

You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan?

Agnieszka has been vegan for a year but ‘slips up’ occasionally. Dylan thinks she’s being hypocritical. You need to get to the meat of the matter

www.theguardian.com

At the end a number of readers have their comments published. I thought the comments pretty much hit the most relevant concerns. And then at the end they have a poll where you get to vote on the verdict. A lot of other online polls will show you the results right after you vote. This one you have to wait a week. The last poll was about John throwing away old clothes and 96% of the people thought he was guilty. I'm thinking this one is going to be a lot less conclusive - closer to 50/50.

I voted against Dylan. She doesn't have to be perfect to call herself vegan.

How are you guys going to vote?

You be the judge -You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan?


This seems a lot like the Reddit "Am I an *******" thread". Maybe what's different about this is that both parties get to make their case. And there is an actual poll.

I got so confused thinking it was the same thread.

I voted against Dylan. She doesn't have to be perfect to call herself vegan.

How are you guys going to vote?

My stance is the same as in the other thread. She is so NOT vegan. She's transitioning. Slipping up insinuates making a mistake but she's not even trying. She's willfully/consciously eating non vegan at home and putting on a show when out in public. I don't know how Dylan can stand her if I'm to be completely honest.

Grsnted, I am 100% being judgmental based on my own standards. If I'm not calling myself vegan because I will eat whole wheat bread with honey or have a veggie burger in a restaurant that has egg in it, then she's not vegan either because she eats meat whenever she feels like it.

I will fault Dylan for calling her out in front of others but he can 100% call her out in private.

 

[Brian W]

she's not even trying. She's willfully/consciously eating non vegan at home

I would question why you assume this considering she has to watch Dylan eat meat every day. Even he says "it's funny how often she slips up."

 

[KLS52]

I would question why you assume this considering she has to watch Dylan eat meat every day. Even he says "it's funny how often she slips up."

Because he was cooking and she said let me have a piece of that bacon?

Aren't we surrounded by people eating meat on an almost daily basis? I don't see that as a right to indulge.

I live with my husband and son. Both are omni. There's meat/dairy/eggs in my refrigerator. I've never once said, let me have a taste of what you're cooking.

To be clear, I don't care what the woman does or says. I was simply giving my take on it in the spirit of participation when asked, "how would you vote?"

I just don't understand anyone's need to call themselves something that they are clearly not. I give props to anyone trying to reduce their consumption of animal products. This feels like we are trying to water down/change what the word vegan means.

 

[Brian W]

Because he was cooking and she said let me have a piece of that bacon?

So? Even I would feel like that if somebody was cooking bacon in front of me. It's called human weakness. We don't have the right to make such presumptions about other people's motives!

 

[silva]

So? Even I would feel like that if somebody was cooking bacon in front of me. It's called human weakness. We don't have the right to make such presumptions about other people's motives!

But it sounds like you are, as you've been defending her!

I can't tolerate hypocrites, so if someone is preaching something they can't fully practice I have no problem in calling them out. First time I'd give a pass and a private admonishment, after that no holds barred.

I understand people slip up but those people need to shut up. Big difference in discussing the value of a vegan diet and being critical that others aren't on board if you aren't

 

[KLS52]

So? Even I would feel like that if somebody was cooking bacon in front of me. It's called human weakness. We don't have the right to make such presumptions about other people's motives!

I'm not presuming. I'm responding to direct statements in the article and the bold text asking me to be the judge. Maybe if she didn't pretend/preach when out in public I'd cut her more slack. I stand by what I've been saying all along. Based on my standards, she's not vegan...yet. She's transitioning.

 

[g0rph]

She isn't vegan. Not in the slightest. It's possible, given her will to go that way, that she will get there, but for me, there is that "red pill" moment. And saying "Can I have a piece of that bacon?" means she has not had it yet.

If I am being overly judgemental I would also say it sounds like she's adopted veganism as a "trend" rather than any actual realisation of what goes on in the animal agriculture industry. But I don't know.

 

[Brian W]

But it sounds like you are, as you've been defending her!

I can't tolerate hypocrites, so if someone is preaching something they can't fully practice I have no problem in calling them out. First time I'd give a pass and a private admonishment, after that no holds barred.

I understand people slip up but those people need to shut up. Big difference in discussing the value of a vegan diet and being critical that others aren't on board if you aren't

It is perfectly acceptable to discuss the facts of an issue that you are personally struggling with. It is perfectly acceptable for an omnivore to talk about the advantages and ethics of veganism let alone a struggling vegan. You are far to deep in your idealistic rabbit hole. I never thought I would say this to you silva, because I have always liked you, but from now on, you are on ignore along with @KLS52 because I can't stand your judgementalism. Goodbye!

 

[Brian W]

She isn't vegan. Not in the slightest. It's possible, given her will to go that way, that she will get there, but for me, there is that "red pill" moment. And saying "Can I have a piece of that bacon?" means she has not had it yet.

If I am being overly judgemental I would also say it sounds like she's adopted veganism as a "trend" rather than any actual realisation of what goes on in the animal agriculture industry. But I don't know.

Then you don't have the faintest clue about human nature and you ought to just shut up! You also are going on ignore.

 

[g0rph]

Then you don't have the faintest clue about human nature and you ought to just shut up! You also are going on ignore.

Wow. That was an over-reaction.

I'm sorry, but once the realisation hit me, actually asking for bacon would be the last thing I would consider. I'm no perfect vegan, I am not against "pets" or in fact service animals etc. Most vegans seem to be. I actually understand why you don't call yourself vegan, and up to a point I am the same. But IF someone calls themselves vegan, the least they can do is not eat meat, otherwise what's the point of the word?

And people do cook bacon, steak, pork, etc in front of me. I don't know any other vegans and I still socialise...which means mostly grilling! It's only been a year and just the smell makes me wretch, never mind anything else.

And my second sentence was qualified. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt and leaving my opinion as a question-mark.

As for human nature. I've got a pretty good idea. As I said, she hasn't had the red-pill moment, so of course the lure is still there. Meat, dairy is addictive and cognitive dissonance is real and powerful.

 

[Danielle]

Sounds like she wants to be vegan just struggles. Still better to aspire for veganism even if you have the slip ups. The cravings are hard when you're new to it and hungry. I would personally think its easier to eat vegan at home than out, but maybe there's more vegan restaurants there

 

[KLS52]

Wow. That was an over-reaction.

Seriously. I'm shocked actually, considering this is pretty much a made up scenario since I don't know these people. It's a thread asking for opinions...it's not like I would ever challenge a stranger in real life if I ever came across them. My "judgement" is based on values I set for myself. It's not like I'm asking something of a (virtual/fake) person that I don't also apply to myself.

 

[Lou]

You be the judge -You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan?

Although The Guardian is one of the publications my NewsFeeder follows, I've never seen their "You Be The Judge" column. The column states, "Your domestic arguments solved by Guardian readers". I guess it comes out on Fridays.

This seems a lot like the Reddit "Am I an *******" thread". Maybe what's different about this is that both parties get to make their case. And there is an actual poll.

Anyway this one popped up, probably because it's about veganism.

You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan?

Agnieszka has been vegan for a year but ‘slips up’ occasionally. Dylan thinks she’s being hypocritical. You need to get to the meat of the matter

www.theguardian.com

At the end a number of readers have their comments published. I thought the comments pretty much hit the most relevant concerns. And then at the end they have a poll where you get to vote on the verdict. A lot of other online polls will show you the results right after you vote. This one you have to wait a week. The last poll was about John throwing away old clothes and 96% of the people thought he was guilty. I'm thinking this one is going to be a lot less conclusive - closer to 50/50.

I voted against Dylan. She doesn't have to be perfect to call herself vegan.

How are you guys going to vote?

When I posted this I honestly thought it was interesting and we would have some interesting discussions.
And I thought the discussions would be interesting because we don't really know these people so we could discuss It abstractly. I think for the most part I was right about that but still some people are getting sort of pasionate about this.

Meanwhile I forgot that the Guardian posts the results of the poll about a week later. I just went back and looked for them.

Here are the results from the poll. I think its about what I expected

We asked if Agnieszka should stop telling people she’s a vegan, given her dietary lapses at home.​

​

74% of you said yes – Agnieszka is guilty​

​

26% of you said no – Agnieszka is innocent​