News ''should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan''?

[silva]

Well I'm gobsmacked!
What is so wrong in wanting a word to mean someone who doesn't use or consume things taken from animals, except under conditions out of their control?

The only 'judgement' I hold is for hypocrites, and it goes for anyone who freely admonishes others for actions when they're guilty of the same actions themselves. It certainly isn't limited to eating animals!

I can't believe they'd get such an attitude NOT because anyone is shaming the woman for slip ups, but insisting she's something she isn't--AND, being judgemental of others who don't even aspire to be veg'n!

Please, someone tell me why they feel it's wrong for someone who calls themselves a vegan to be held to the standards stated above! I'm not talking about "slip-ups" either, but consciously deciding to go against that and be okay with it

I've never known anyone who follows a religion that strickly abhors certain foods to think they can have a hot dog or whatever and insist everyone take their side---but vegan eating bacon people defend!

 

[silva]

It is perfectly acceptable to discuss the facts of an issue that you are personally struggling with. It is perfectly acceptable for an omnivore to talk about the advantages and ethics of veganism let alone a struggling vegan. You are far to deep in your idealistic rabbit hole. I never thought I would say this to you silva, because I have always liked you, but from now on, you are on ignore along with @KLS52 because I can't stand your judgementalism. Goodbye!

Have fun with that

 

[g0rph]

Well I'm gobsmacked!
What is so wrong in wanting a word to mean someone who doesn't use or consume things taken from animals, except under conditions out of their control?

The only 'judgement' I hold is for hypocrites, and it goes for anyone who freely admonishes others for actions when they're guilty of the same actions themselves. It certainly isn't limited to eating animals!

I can't believe they'd get such an attitude NOT because anyone is shaming the woman for slip ups, but insisting she's something she isn't--AND, being judgemental of others who don't even aspire to be veg'n!

Please, someone tell me why they feel it's wrong for someone who calls themselves a vegan to be held to the standards stated above! I'm not talking about "slip-ups" either, but consciously deciding to go against that and be okay with it

I've never known anyone who follows a religion that strickly abhors certain foods to think they can have a hot dog or whatever and insist everyone take their side---but vegan eating bacon people defend!

I don't think many vegans would actually defend that particular part of the story.
What I would defend, if she had said something like "I just couldn't resist taking a piece of bacon and I feel awful about it". That's an addiction in action.
But the way it was worded in the article. Hmm.

On the other hand, Dylan was being a jerk and it was he who quoted her. And maybe it didn't happen as described. We'll never know.

Either way, if I do ever lapse, I will not say "I am vegan", but rather "I am mostly vegan / I am trying to be vegan" or even just say "I am plant-based and don't buy animal produce".

One of the reasons I do use the word myself (as opposed to Brian) is to remind myself every day that I have a responsibility.
If I said "mostly vegan" or "trying to be vegan" I know full well it could allow a sliver of doubt in my conviction.

But obviously Brian has had these issues himself(struggling with maintaining the lifestyle - diet especially I imagine) and is feeling personally attacked by us simply wanting a (fairly reasonable) minimum standard and not siding with Agnieszka. I hope he realises that is not the case and that we are allowed to disagree on things.

 

[KLS52]

I don't think many vegans would actually defend that particular part of the story.
What I would defend, if she had said something like "I just couldn't resist taking a piece of bacon and I feel awful about it". That's an addiction in action.
But the way it was worded in the article. Hmm.

I agree.

On the other hand, Dylan was being a jerk and it was he who quoted her. And maybe it didn't happen as described. We'll never know.

That's a possibility but for the sake of discussion it was just easier to base comments on how the scenario was portrayed in the article.

Either way, if I do ever lapse, I will not say "I am vegan", but rather "I am mostly vegan / I am trying to be vegan" or even just say "I am plant-based and don't buy animal produce".

One of the reasons I do use the word myself (as opposed to Brian) is to remind myself every day that I have a responsibility.
If I said "mostly vegan" or "trying to be vegan" I know full well it could allow a sliver of doubt in my conviction.

I moved to a new state three years ago and tried describing myself to new friends as mostly vegan. But I quickly realized it was confusing for a lot of them and it was becoming tedious trying to explain at what times I allow myself to eat non vegan...such as the veggie burger at a restaurant or honey in the wheat bread, etc. They took mostly vegan to mean that I would occasionally eat cheese pizza or egg pasta. I won't. So for their sakes I identify as vegan because it's easier. And they don't question the menu when we're eating out so it's a non issue.

But obviously Brian has had these issues himself(struggling with maintaining the lifestyle - diet especially I imagine) and is feeling personally attacked by us simply wanting a (fairly reasonable) minimum standard and not siding with Agnieszka. I hope he realises that is not the case and that we are allowed to disagree on things.

I feel awful that my comments would result in anyone getting so upset as to put me on ignore, but I thought I was pretty clear in explaining why I said what I said about a basically hypothetical scenario.

 

[silva]

I agree with everything KLS52 says except for the "I feel awful that my comments would result in anyone getting so upset as to put me on ignore..."
I feel kinda p'ssd.
We really should refrain from discussing hypothetical situations where we can only infer what's really happening. I felt I was pretty clear about what position I was commenting on, and not just presuming or taking sides.

I have a very low tolerance for people who have the attitude they know it all, and don't. Just shut up till you can walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

I wonder if he would would be as offended if the discussion were about someone new to Christianity, chastising those around them for not being believers, while all the while backsliding into the behaviours they criticise in others

 

[g0rph]

I wonder if he would would be as offended if the discussion were about someone new to Christianity, chastising those around them for not being believers, while all the while backsliding into the behaviours they criticise in others

Yep. I am just glad we didn't get onto religion (I try to avoid it). I have no real desire to offend anyone, but (organised) religion makes me as angry as carnism to be honest with all the pain it has (unnecessarily) caused and is still causing all in the name of whichever deity or deities is/are currently not deemed mythical.


The future is a socialistic, religion-free, vegan world...

 

[Freesia]

I think she is going a bit far with preaching to others though I know at the beginning it is really tempting to do so.....

also the boyfriend is being really unhelpful, it would be better if he did some vegan cooking with her... might help better, and help her find alternatives to bacon as there are some great ones, such as coconut bacon, eggplant bacon etc.

 

[David3]

You be the judge -You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan?

Although The Guardian is one of the publications my NewsFeeder follows, I've never seen their "You Be The Judge" column. The column states, "Your domestic arguments solved by Guardian readers". I guess it comes out on Fridays.

This seems a lot like the Reddit "Am I an *******" thread". Maybe what's different about this is that both parties get to make their case. And there is an actual poll.

Anyway this one popped up, probably because it's about veganism.

You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop claiming she’s a vegan?

Agnieszka has been vegan for a year but ‘slips up’ occasionally. Dylan thinks she’s being hypocritical. You need to get to the meat of the matter

www.theguardian.com

At the end a number of readers have their comments published. I thought the comments pretty much hit the most relevant concerns. And then at the end they have a poll where you get to vote on the verdict. A lot of other online polls will show you the results right after you vote. This one you have to wait a week. The last poll was about John throwing away old clothes and 96% of the people thought he was guilty. I'm thinking this one is going to be a lot less conclusive - closer to 50/50.

I voted against Dylan. She doesn't have to be perfect to call herself vegan.

How are you guys going to vote?

.
LOL great idea to act as the Vegan Police towards one's girlfriend. That relationship is ending fast.

 

[Brian W]

I've been thinking about this a lot and my final conclusion is that it is nobody's business but hers.

 

[silva]

I hope we never bring up such a vague 'whos right' hypothetical again
It seems it says more about our own particular peeves than anything else. I see it as the woman acting as an @ss to others who don't welcome the lectures, with a boyfriend who well knows how much she cheats herself.
I absolutely don't think this relationship should last!

 

[Brian W]

When I posted this I honestly thought it was interesting and we would have some interesting discussions.
And I thought the discussions would be interesting because we don't really know these people so we could discuss It abstractly. I think for the most part I was right about that but still some people are getting sort of pasionate about this.

Meanwhile I forgot that the Guardian posts the results of the poll about a week later. I just went back and looked for them.

Here are the results from the poll. I think its about what I expected

We asked if Agnieszka should stop telling people she’s a vegan, given her dietary lapses at home.​

​

74% of you said yes – Agnieszka is guilty​

​

26% of you said no – Agnieszka is innocent​

It's not surprising when there are so many judgemental vegans who are griping because of her slips and judgemental omnivores who don't like being told about the suffering their diet causes.